My first time to Europe - looking for some advice

[kipperfan]

I should clarify for all that I am spending 3 nights in Venice and only going to Milan as part of a day trip, I am not spending much time there at all.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Damn. I spent a year in Italy and never bothered to go to Venice. But I did go to Milan and there's nothing there. For a first timer in Italy, the most important places to go are Florence and Rome and if you can make it, take a day trip down to Pompeii (Vesuvius). The very second you arrive in Naples, you'll want to leave. It is, by far, the dirtiest and sketchyist city I saw in Europe. There is nothing there that isn't in other, cleaner, better cities. Once you see St. Peter's Basilica and the Duomo in Florence, all other Italian churches will warrant a 'meh'.

If you consolidate your time in Italy into Florence and Rome, you'll see an assload more and you'll be glad. There are tons of museums and sites between the two cities that will give you the real feel of urban and ancient Italy without having to waste time in places like Milan and Naples.
Milan is fashion-ey and kinda modern. Not really "Italy". Naples is just a hole. Dilapidated, dirty, dog sh1t on the sidewalks, trash everywhere, laundry hanging off all the windows, nothing to see, people that like to rob.
Seriously, do Pompeii as a day trip from Rome and skip Naples.
And go to Florence. Probably the most beautiful city in Italy.

Agreed. I think Rome, Florence, Pompeii/Hercalanium (sp?) are a must. My favourite part of Italy was Almafi Coast, but I don't know if that would be the same for everyone else.

Venice - I stopped by Venice and few months ago in between destinations, and it was a zoo. Packed, dirty, and quite possibly over 30 tour groups packed in one square. I remember staying at a sketchy hotel/hostel where the adjacent rooms had prostitutes entertaining clients and a new guy walking into their room every 30 minutes. Skip Venice, even the Venetien in Las Vegas or Macau will give you your fill if you need it. A more exotic Venice is Gongzhao in China, IMO.

(Above: Stopping in Milan reminds me of the time I stopped by Zagreb in Croatia for 4 hours. I remember having lunch, walking around for an hour then being bored and took a nap for an hour. That would probably describe Milan pretty well.)

[Language]

If you're in Germany, I think you should definitely stop in Munich for at least some of that time like others have said. An amazing city with lots of history and a great vibe to it.

I would also recommend skipping Naples as well, unless there's something you really want to see there. When I was in Europe I thought about doing a day trip to Pompeii but instead went to Cinque Terre. It's an amazing place with 5 little picturesque villages scattered along a beautiful trail along the coast, about an hour or so from Rome. It's already becoming quite popular with tourists so I'd recommend getting there as it's still a great charming little area of Italy that not too many people know about!

[shermanator]

If you're in Paris check out the Sacre Couer. Best view of the city period, and if youre not horribly out of shape, you can walk up the 15 stories or so of stairs to save a wait in line. It's in the slummier part of Paris, so there's a trick the people do there to tourists. They try to tie a string on your finger, and when they can't untie it, they demand money.

If you're into the war thing, skip Frankfurt and head to Munich. Dachau is just a short train/bus ride out of town (maybe half an hour altogether). Very sobering place indeed...

[Hyde]

Originally Posted by shermanator

If you're in Paris check out the Sacre Couer. Best view of the city period.

Just want to second this. I went on my last day in Paris, walked all they up to Sacre Couer not the best area of Paris (and we were two women but no harm came to us). The pictures were worth it.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by shermanator

It's in the slummier part of Paris, so there's a trick the people do there to tourists. They try to tie a string on your finger, and when they can't untie it, they demand money.

hope you gave em what they deserved, a good punch in the face...

[Matata]

I hope your staying in hostels, they are about a million times funner than a hotel. Hostels are great for organizing group events with lots of foreigners (usually pub crawls).

[CaptainCrunch]

Madame Vandersexxx: Welcome to Club Vandersexxx, Amsterdam's most erotic club. Where your every fantasy will be fulfilled.
Cooper: Also, says I get a free t-shirt with the flyer.
Madame Vandersexxx: He is American. How sad for you to grow up in a country that was founded by prudes. A country over run with crime and illiteracy. A country where a man is forced to make sex to only one woman at a time and one must learn the woman's name beforehand.
Cooper: It was horrible.
Madame Vandersexxx: I know, but you can come with me and let the Vandersexxx begin.



[unrated DVD version]
[excerpts seen during original version credits]
Hostel Clerk: Hello, and welcome to Amsterdam's finest and most luxurious youth hostel. We feature one medium sized room containing 70 beds which can sleep up to 375 bodies a night. There is no bathroom. Nor is there one nearby. If you do not wish to have your valuables stolen I suggest destroying them or discarding them right now. You can also try hiding your valuables. In your anus. This will deter some but of course not all thieves. Once you are inside, the doors are chained and locked from the outside. They will not be opened again until morning, no matter what. Should a fire occur due to our faulty wiring or, uh, the fireworks factory upstairs you will be incinerated along with the valuables that you have hidden in your anus. Tips are greatly appreciated.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Dan02

hope you gave em what they deserved, a good punch in the face...

They actually tried to grab my hand out of my pocket. I shouted a few four letter words their way which seemed to give them the message. They actually apologized on the way back down. Those crazy s...

[shermanator]

I should also note that European girls are HOT! They're everywhere!

[FurnaceFace]

Fat Tire Bike Tours
Paris-Berlin-Barcelona

We took the Segway tour in Paris (sounds ghey, but it was actually a blast) and the bike tour in Barcelona was excellent, a must do if you go there. Have not done it in Berlin, but I can imagine it would be a good way to see some of the sites.

Paris - I could write a book on it. You've already gotten some good advice. If you can pickup a copy of Walking Tours of Paris, it's very good. My 4 day tour of Paris would be something like:
Day 1 - some easy tour in the morning (like on a Segway!) to help work out the jet lag. Have a nap. Go up to Sacre Couer and wander around Montmartre ending at The Moulin Rouge or pick a walk out of your walking tour book. If you don't do a bike or similar tour then go see the Eiffel Tour (get off at the Trocedero metro stop, it has the best view of the tower) and walk down to Les Invalides then do the above.

Day 2 - Do either The Louvre or Musee D'Orsey. Note they close one day a week so make sure you don't get caught out. Pompidou isn't a big draw in my books, but if you're a modern fan go for it. I'd suggest the Musee Rodin for the great sculptures. It's also free one day a week as I think some of the other museums are too. Go up the Arch de Triumphe at night and see the lights and then wander over to the Eiffel Tower for the same.

Day 3 - The other museum(s) you want to hit, a walking tour, and the arch/tower if you didn't go the night before.

Day 4 - Do the island visiting Notre Dame (the outside is fine) and the government buildings and such around it. Walk down the river on the side opposite Notre Dame (Rive gauche) and check out some of the street sellers and get a real sense of the city. Walk into the 5th (Parthenon) and 6th (Luxembourg) Arrondissements to get a sense of city life.

For food nothing is as Parisienne as buying a baguette from a corner patisserie and just ripping off pieces of it as you wander the streets.


-------
Barcelona is a fantastic city, I highly recommend.

-------

There is nothing in Frankfurt worth seeing. It was pretty much bombed to nothing in WWII and is just a modern city now. If you want old Germany I would pick Heidelburg or Nuremburg or if you want to be closer to Frankfurt, pick Mainz. All have the old medieval charm you're looking for. Nuremburg also has some of the war history you might be after.

Berlin was awesome. Tons to see and tons of WWII history. Sadly the parts of the wall that were still up when I was there are no longer around other than a couple of sections turned into an outdoor art gallery.

-------

I liked Venice, but maybe just because it flooded when we were there so it was rather memorable sloshing down the street in my shorts on the way to buy some rubber boots. It's worth perhaps a day and as others have said, spend more time in Florence or down south.

-------

Switzerland is pretty, enjoy the skiing.

-------

Back in my youth the future Mrs Furnace and I did a month tour of Europe. We did it in two loops from Paris as our home. Both loops were about two weeks:

Paris-Antibes-Geneva-Heidelberg-Salzburg-Venice-Florence-(night train)-Paris

Paris-Antwerp-Brugge-Amsterdam-Aachen-Berlin-(night train)-Paris

Looking back I wouldn't cut out a thing (other than Aachen, we stopped there to see friends...but did get a ride to Berlin and a free place to stay!) it was a good intro to Europe and left us wanting to see the rest in other trips. We did spend about 3 weeks after that month in Paris and area so Paris site seeing isn't included in that month.

-------

I have pics of some of these location on my site. The above backpacking tour was way back in the 90s before anyone dreamed of digital and I haven't scanned my pics so you won't see anything from that era sadly but there are bunches of shots of Paris and places like Barcelona and Frankfurt.

The last advice I have is see as much as you can but also stop and try to find some "real Europe" in behind all those postcards, plastic souvenirs, and commemorative coins. Also start saving for your next trip because as soon as you get back, you'll want to go again.

Have fun.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

budapest....spectacular, great night life/food, impressive buildings, and wonderful people

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by shermanator

so there's a trick the people do there to tourists. They try to tie a string on your finger, and when they can't untie it, they demand money.

I have heard of this but in all the times I have been up there I have never once had someone try this on me. It must happen though so best be prepared. In the prepared category you can't go wrong with a money belt, just gives you piece of mind. Have a couple of small bills in your pockets for incidentals.

Other tips:
In Paris ask for a Carnet (Car-Ney) or buy one from the machines (I believe all of the machines are miltilingual). It's a book of 10 tickets at a discounted price just like here. The day passes are typically not worth it unless you're doing a heap of trips in a day.

From the Paris Airport you can take the RER train into the city. It's the cheapest way to get into town. You can buy tickets from the machines if there is no human around.

Charles De Gaulle airport is also sometimes referred to Roissy in places like the Metro and RER.

Learn the Metro and you'll own Paris http://www.ratp.info/orienter/f_plan...f=metro&fm=gif

[Bill Bumface]

I'm going to be repeating a lot of what was said earlier, but here is my take on your itinerary:

Venice. I guess I agree with the "Overrated" sentiment somewhat, but its sort of like saying Sydney Crosby is overrated, he's still a damn good hockey player, it's just he's held in ridiculously high esteem by some. It's worth seeing for sure, but since it seems you're a faster paced traveler like myself, there is no need to spend more than one night there. You can walk around all the major sights in a day no problem, and after that you will actually get tired of a bunch of similar looking buildings on similar looking canals. There's a couple islands you can go to for a half day trip which I wasn't able to do because the ferry didn't run late enough, but that would have been cool for a second day. There is absolutely nothing to do there at night. I think it was by far the worst night life I've seen in all of the places I've been in Europe which include some really small obscure non-tourist towns. Milan, unless you're a girl that loves shopping, skip it. I would highly highly recommend Verona. Probably the most pleasant surprise of my last trip, and I actually liked it more than Venice.

Paris- It's awesome, but the hostels suck. Unbelievable how bad they suck for a city that size. I would recommend staying in the Latin Quarter, there is an "okay" hostel there, it's where all the students hang out, and your food options are abundant- restaurants, walk up stands, grocery stores... there is everything, and all very affordable for Paris. You'll cry when you have to buy a meal in the main part of the city. You're also right on a metro stop if you stay there too. Versaille was undergoing very heavy restoration as of this October, so I would say skip it for sure. Not worth the trip to get out there.

Frankfurt- Unless a train station surrounded by prostitutes is your thing, absolutely nothing to see there. I stayed in a small town outside of Frankfurt for a couple of nights, and we never even bothered going back into the city because the hour we spent walking around was enough and we had way more fun in the town. Munich is awesome. Surprisingly not bombed out by German standards.

Berlin- Tied for the craziest night life I've experienced with Budapest. You go into some places that you'll spend the entire time trying to figure out if it's the coolest bar you've been to, or the biggest hole. The city itself is very ugly and odd. Pretty much nothing left there, and the East is almost depressing it's so drab. Cheap though! If you're staying in a hostel, the Wombats there is awesome. I found Checkpoint Charlie to be a massive disappointment. It was wall upon wall of story boards to read, many of them repeats of previous one. Many cool stories, but I'd rather sit at home on the internet and read up about that stuff after the fact than waste my time spending half a day standing and reading when I could be out and seeing.

Zermatt- I've been there twice, but never in winter, only Summer and Fall. It's a very very small town, pretty cool though. I had a great time last time I was there terrorizing the streets until 5 in the morning. The Matterhorn is a lie. It doesn't exist. They point to the clouds and say that's where it's supposed to be, but I think it's a Swiss tourist conspiracy. It was really qiuet both times I was there, but I think there population increases about 10 fold during ski season, so I'm sure it will be more lively, but more frustrating. It's also in the middle of nowhere, so while Switzerland has some amazing sights, you won't really be able to take any of them in from there because you're at the end of the rail line with no other towns around.

You should have a great time!

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Okay CP - I am leaving for a European vacation in 12 days and figured it is time to talk to CP and get some last minute recommendations on where to go, what to do, where to eat..etc. I would appreciate any type of advise whether from personal expiernce or a book you have read or whatever - I have never been to Europe and though have all my destinations planned, I want to know the "must do" or "must go" places in these areas of the world.

First I suppose I should tell you all where I am going, I am flying into Paris and staying for 4 days, from there onto Venice and Milan, then up into Zermatt Switzerland for a few days of skiing. After that I head down into Naples and Mount Vesuvius for 2 days, to Rome for 3, Barcelona for 2, Madrid for 2, Berlin for 2, Frankfurt for 2, Amsterdam for 2 and hopefully a trip to Vimy Ridge to top it all off before going back to Paris to catch the flight home.

So have you been to these cities? Surrounding areas? Give me some tips!

Ok, sounds good but I will tell you what you need to do. First of all, don't hide things in your anus, it will no doubt be uncomfortable.

Secondly, I am not sure if you have booked places yet, nor do I know where your staying, hotel or hostel, but if it is hostel I can recommend a few good ones from where I stayed.

Thirdly, as places you must go, skip Madrid, spend an extra day in Barcelona instead (tons to do), Madrid not so much. Skip Milan, boring city, add in Florence instead. PLEASE SKIP FRANKFURT. What a terrible city for tourism. There is BARELY anything to do, I regret the 3 days there. 20 minutes could do Frankfurt. Since your doing only 12 days and doing like 5 countries, you will get TIRED!! I just reread and it seems you LEAVING in 12 days. Do you mind telling us how long total you will be staying, because from my experience you are doing WAY too much in a short period of time.

I am thinking your staying for around 23-25 days total? If 24 was the case I would go:

Paris
Switzerland
Italy
Germany
Amsterdam
Home

I would skip Spain altogether, way way way too much travelling. How are you travelling anyway? Rail, cheap flights?

I came back Nov. 6 from a 3 month trip, so I have tons of info I can share with you.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by shermanator

If you're in Paris check out the Sacre Couer. Best view of the city period, and if youre not horribly out of shape, you can walk up the 15 stories or so of stairs to save a wait in line. It's in the slummier part of Paris, so there's a trick the people do there to tourists. They try to tie a string on your finger, and when they can't untie it, they demand money.

If you're into the war thing, skip Frankfurt and head to Munich. Dachau is just a short train/bus ride out of town (maybe half an hour altogether). Very sobering place indeed...

Again I will add in. I heard of this somewhere in Italy and when I went back to Paris someone actually tried to do it to me. So WATCH OUT! I already said Frankfurt was boring, but I suggest checking out Munich. Awesome city, check out the Hofbräuhaus if you go. I think it is that place that right across the street has a store with my last name (which is German).

Oh yeah, and are you travelling alone, or with someone/people?

[Tiger]

My best advice is not to plan too much. I went for five weeks and only planned the hotel room for the first few days in paris just so I had a place to stay right off the bat. I ended up travelling to belgium, holland (I stayed in Den Haag rather than amsterdam because locals told me to do day trips from den haag rather than stay there. best advice ever, the tourist area of amsterdam is ugly compared to the rest of the city/country), from there I flew to ireland with ryanair for extremely cheap (0.01 euros + tax) and spent two weeks driving around ireland.

So don't plan too much, if you have a plan set in stone you'll end up leaving placing you like too early to see places that may not be as good. You'll miss some stuff but no matter what you do you'll miss stuff.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

I should clarify for all that I am spending 3 nights in Venice and only going to Milan as part of a day trip, I am not spending much time there at all.

Well, if you're going daytripping from Venice, I'd much rather recommend seeing the Postojna caves in Slovenia (Halfway between Trieste and Ljubljana). They're actually closer in miles to Venice than Milan, although getting there might take more time, but they're really a pretty unique sight, at least for the casual tourist.



I'd put it easily among the most interesting and awesome natural sights in Europe. It takes an hour and a half to get through just a small part of the whole thing, even though a big part of the trip is by train.

The Predjana castle near Postojna is also a nice sight, as it's built partly inside similar caves, it fits nicely within the same daytrip. (There are more caves under the castle, which I hear are also cool, and I hear the forests around the castle are good for a nice trek, although I didn't try it. I know someone who did this all in one day, but I am not that athletic.)

As to the cities, Barcelona is one of my favourites, and if you get there I really recommend checking out some of the crazy stuff Gaudi (an architect) designed. It's "The Thing To See" there, definitely. Barcelona also has excellent food in all price categories. (I have a friend who lives in Dreta de l'Eixample, and it seems to me like a good part of town to start explorations from. Relatively peaceful, beatiful, not too many tourists and within walking distance from a lot of things.)

Madrid is not as interesting in my opinion, a big city with lots of fun things to see and do of course, but I don't really remember anything much about it, which tends to say that you can see pretty much the same stuff elsewhere. Seville is in my opinion much more worth visiting, as it's a really beatiful city. The nightlife of course is propably nothing compared to Madrid. But I'd get my nightlife in Barcelona and then go check out Seville at some point. (Although Seville is pretty far away from Madrid.)

Oh, and while you're in Europe, go see some Football, especially in places like Italy and Spain. It's really an experience, if you can get tickets to a good game. Local matchups or UEFA cup / Champions league games are the best of course. They're really worth the money and the the effort, even if you're not into the sport. (It's a pretty easy sport to follow anyway.)

Oh, and I agree with many others: there's nothing of interest in Frankfurt.

General hint 1) Take some time to let the atmosphere sink in, don't rush it. Places are not just "sights".

General hint 2) Remember to check out local happenings. (Just google for cities and dates and keep an eye out for posters and brochures while you're there.) Even if something sounds like a small thing and you don't really know what it is, if it's not much of an effort, check it out. In the big cities there's always something going on, and much of it is free or costs very little. I've collected many of my best memories this way. It's the easiest way to try and experience the same things as the locals, and that's usually the ultimate travel expecience.

3) Don't expect too much. I've seen quite a few American backpackers that do, and it seems to be a good way to miss out on all the good vibes.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Go to the Banana bar in Amsterdam.

And sit in the front row.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Go to the Banana bar in Amsterdam.

And sit in the front row.

No, that one is nasty, the Moulin Rouge is better.

P.S. I was in the front row for the Moulin Rouge.