Alberta's Ticket Out? Poll

[BlackArcher101]

A big hell no.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Slava

No, and really this is a stupid question. I think that the entire western alienation argument is false to begin with. Its a made in Alberta problem...BC doesn't seem to suffer from this and neither does Saskatchewan or the Yukon.

Yah. BC, Sask and Yukon don't send money east, either...

[First Lady]

No, I am a firewaller.

But I do sleep with a separatist.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Yah. BC, Sask and Yukon don't send money east, either...

Times change though, and that is the point of confederation to begin with: if you are in a region as prosperous as ours you help out some of the less fortunate areas of the country.

[Ozy_Flame]

Hell no to separation. What a joke; I think I'd claim refugee status in Ontario and retain my Canadian ties.

That said, if it DID happen, I'd rather prefer a Calgary city-state, much like Singapore.

Far-fetched? Hell yes. Serious? Hell no.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Slava

Times change though, and that is the point of confederation to begin with: if you are in a region as prosperous as ours you help out some of the less fortunate areas of the country.

OK... But how long does my region have to take a stick up the butt? We don't get proportional representation, but we have to keep sending money to places that want to give us the shaft?

I'm not happy about this stuff going on. I look at other places around the world and dont see any successful countries that are as large and diverse as ours and I can't help but wonder if we'd be better off as a conglomerate of smaller countries.

Eh, I'm not sayin Alberta should seperate, but can you tell me why Alberta shouldn't? I mean, what advantages are there for Alberta to remain?

(music note) Gimme one reason to stay here...... An' I'll turn right back around........(/music note)

[Slava]

Originally Posted by 4X4

OK... But how long does my region have to take a stick up the butt? We don't get proportional representation, but we have to keep sending money to places that want to give us the shaft?

I'm not happy about this stuff going on. I look at other places around the world and dont see any successful countries that are as large and diverse as ours and I can't help but wonder if we'd be better off as a conglomerate of smaller countries.

Eh, I'm not sayin Alberta should seperate, but can you tell me why Alberta shouldn't? I mean, what advantages are there for Alberta to remain?

(music note) Gimme one reason to stay here...... An' I'll turn right back around........(/music note)

I understand exactly what you mean, but to me there is no alternative that makes any sense. It might not be until I'm an old grandfather when Alberta is a have-not province (and hopefully longer!), but it does happen. Who'd have thunk it possible that Newfoundland become a have province? Alberta was a have-not until Leduc in 1947...which is certainly within the lifetime of people I know.

I get that it sucks to pay money to other provinces, and I feel that pain as well. Believe me when I pay my taxes the thought of people going hungry here and the money flowing east makes me sick! I do think that there are advantages to being in confederation though. There is a certain dignity I feel in being Canadian. I do feel a certain kinship with people from across the country, most notably when we are not in Canada, but nonetheless its there. I have no doubt that this would be lessened if we were to separate based purely on economic rationale (which is what this inevitably comes back to).

I might not be able to point to a concrete program or benefit, but lets face it...In 2010 when Iginla takes the pass from Lecavalier and scores the game winner I don't think first of which province these guys come from, and couldn't care less!

[transplant99]

I am hardly a fan of seperation based on Canada USED to function...but those days seem to be a long distant memory and fading quickly.

I was part of the campaign for a no vote for Quebec a mere 15? years ago. Simply because I thought that Canada would be better served by sticking together as one. truth is....there is no "one". There is 3, maybe 4...and that's it.

The country is so entirely and completely segmented and segregated now...what the hell is going to change anything? on top of that, the actions this past week of some of the elected officials responsible for pulling things together have only further alienated many.

Confereration, as it is defined, seems like a long lost cause anymore and has for the majority of my lifetime. Right or wrong, that's how it has been. Polarization between the east, West and Quebec has likely never been stronger.

So what is it we should stay together for?

That is an answer i have looked for a whole lot the last 10 years and was a MAJOR reason I left canada when I had a chance 8 years ago. Its also one of the things that has me hesitating moving back, though I have had plans to on 3 different occasions the last 2 years. (among other circumstances unforeseen at the time)

Now I feel like I have not a lot of reason to go back beyond family and that sort of thing. The country itself? Meh...what country? (A bit rhetorical sounding but the feeling exists)

[Azure]

Yep.

If we get BC, Manitoba and Sask to go with us.

[redforever]

Absolutely 100% no. I am a Canadian first and an Albertan second.

And I think if this type of movement ever went to a poll, it would never pass. Why? Because as I have just stated, I think most Albertans are like me, Canadian first. Then there is the fact that around half those living in Alberta now, originally came from another province, and in fairly recent times too. They have not been Albertan long enough to support Alberta's secession from Canada.

There are alternatives to go through in regards to parliamentary reform before separation should even be considered.

And perhaps now, seeing how democracy at Canada is badly failing, there might be a renewed interest in reforming our system to actually make it work.

We are a young country, we are going through growing pains, but we are not at the stage yet of leaving the family and running away and slamming the door.

[4X4]

Slava... I hear what you're saying, but I'm not so sure you're hearing what I'm saying. Maybe Alberta didn't "come of age" until 1947, but now that it (we) have, why aren't we treated as an equal at the table?
Kinda seems like we're the oldest brother in a family where the parents are going invalid and we're pulling more than our share of weight, but having no say in how the household is run.
Sorry if that sounds whiny, but it's the case. And it's friggin annoying.This isn't about helping out our ne'er-to-do brothers. I'm all for a charitable donation. Hell, our transfer payments can be doubled for all I care. What I want is a fair say in the future of the country.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Slava... I hear what you're saying, but I'm not so sure you're hearing what I'm saying. Maybe Alberta didn't "come of age" until 1947, but now that it (we) have, why aren't we treated as an equal at the table?
Kinda seems like we're the oldest brother in a family where the parents are going invalid and we're pulling more than our share of weight, but having no say in how the household is run.
Sorry if that sounds whiny, but it's the case. And it's friggin annoying.This isn't about helping out our ne'er-to-do brothers. I'm all for a charitable donation. Hell, our transfer payments can be doubled for all I care. What I want is a fair say in the future of the country.

Good points and I agree with them. But I dont think proposing separation from Canada will get us the respect that we want and deserve.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by redforever

Good points and I agree with them. But I dont think proposing separation from Canada will get us the respect that we want and deserve.

I tend to agree... But at the same time, I also tend to look around our fair country and notice that the only time any province has acheived any kind of fair say is when they threaten to seperate. So what does Alberta do? Just sit back and take it up the arse while Ontario and Quebec decide everything, or does Alberta stand up and say "Hey F'rs, We're pulling our weight around here... How about listening to us for a minute??? Remember, without us, you'd be kinda screwed right now..."

2/3 of the popluation is indeed in Quebec and Ontario, but how much is subsidized by other provinces? If everyone threatened to take ball/go home, they'd be screwed. Time for them to realize that we're not just a bunch of farmers at their mercy.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by redforever

Good points and I agree with them. But I dont think proposing separation from Canada will get us the respect that we want and deserve.

Nor will getting bullied around and electing provincial governments that are to wimpy to stand up for themselves.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Slava... I hear what you're saying, but I'm not so sure you're hearing what I'm saying. Maybe Alberta didn't "come of age" until 1947, but now that it (we) have, why aren't we treated as an equal at the table?
Kinda seems like we're the oldest brother in a family where the parents are going invalid and we're pulling more than our share of weight, but having no say in how the household is run.
Sorry if that sounds whiny, but it's the case. And it's friggin annoying.This isn't about helping out our ne'er-to-do brothers. I'm all for a charitable donation. Hell, our transfer payments can be doubled for all I care. What I want is a fair say in the future of the country.

I think that if we were to propose separation that would just lead to people in the east (and likely in the maritimes) thinking that we have developed a "holier than" type of complex. I think that we should have a fair say in the future of the country, no question about it. But the same things that drive me crazy about PQ separtists drive me crazy about Alberta or Western separtists.

Basically they see separation as a great panacea, which it is clearly not. Its a slippery slope in a lot of ways. We don't like that power is held out east (by and large) and that our views are ignored. But earlier in Alberta history we were just as upset that the provincial capital was in Edmonton although Calgary was a bigger city (the Liberals screwed us yet again!!!). Separating won't solve any of this.

I long for a day when a good proportional representation system at least solves the political inequities in the country. I know that day is far from near, but I do think that would solve a lot in terms of alienation that some feel.

[Antithesis]

I'm proud to be a Canadian and all, and I don't think I'd qualify myself as anything resembling a separatist, however, my first loyalty is to my family and my loved ones; I am in favor of whatever is best for them, whether it's being a part of Canada or not. I'd not mind seeing some kind of growing separatist movement that could make Ottawa stand up and go, "Whoa!" ... and perhaps throw a few more frickin' bones our way.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Nor will getting bullied around and electing provincial governments that are to wimpy to stand up for themselves.

I've heard that over the past couple of days, but don't really know what to make of it. What should Stelmach be saying/doing here to "stand up" for us?

[Flames in 07]

No, but I can't really come up with a good argument to convince someone like Azure from packing it in.

The sense of entitlement the east has is huge and growing. The only way you can throw 30 billion dollars at one piece of the country is when you suck money from another part, and I gotta admit, I'm tired of getting nothing out of the transfer payment program. If it was about helping rebuild a piece of the country through training and transition that's one thing, but all it's doing is subsidizing non sustainable industry and economy.

So that's a very underwhelming 'no' I guess.

[Ronald Pagan]

Each original member of NAFTA has a veto over the inclusion of any new member.

Think about that for a second...

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Each original member of NAFTA has a veto over the inclusion of any new member.

Think about that for a second...

haha, umm ok I have. Thanks.