Dion to step down as leader

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by JerzeeGirl

What I always heard from people who weren't voting Liberal was because it was voting for a "French Guy". I thought that was wrong - it's one thing to hate him cuz he doesn't represent your pov politically but to do it mainly because he's a Quebecer whose second language is english is wrong imho.

I agree with you to a point, however I think in the world the way it is right now it's better to have a leader with a firm grasp on English. He will be conversing with other leaders who may also have English as a 2nd language, so it would be better for at least one person to know the language that is being conversed in.

There is nothing wrong with having a leader who is from Quebec, but why not look at a guy like Mulroney; where I recall being once being shocked at how good his French was until I found out that he was from Quebec.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by JerzeeGirl

Personally, I liked alot of what Dion was saying - being a fairly Liberal minded person. I liked his politics better than Harper's anyways. What I always heard from people who weren't voting Liberal was because it was voting for a "French Guy". I thought that was wrong - it's one thing to hate him cuz he doesn't represent your pov politically but to do it mainly because he's a Quebecer whose second language is english is wrong imho.

I would normally agree with you, but there can't be a double standard. Its strongly implied that any english candidate has to have a strong grasp over french, in fact Harper took a lot of critisism for his lack of french language skills and worked very hard to upgrade it. It should be fair in that a leader from Quebec can also speak both official languages fluently. Also since the Prime Minister has to do a lot of business with English speaking countries he should be fluent in English.

I felt bad for Dion, however his pronouncement earlier in the Campaign that he was a nationalist when he was quebec, and his comprehension issues in English really hurt his standings outside of Quebec.

[octothorp]

CBC has a decent run-down of potential candidates.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...possibles.html

[jtfrogger]

I think the interesting thing about this, is Dion will be the first Liberal Leader in 120 years that does not become the Prime Minister. I had to look it up, and Edward Blake was the last one not to become PM, and he was the leader from 1880-87.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by jammies

I blame his winking avatar, it finally became too much for him and he had to go off on a quixotic quest that many men before have lost their lives in pursuing - the elusive MILF.

Oh wait, wrong Dion. Never mind.

Funny, but my first reaction to seeing the thread title was that it was going to be about Phaneuf giving up the "A", and I wondered why it was in Off Topic.

I forgot all about the other guy.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its hilarious, but as a subscriber, part member of the Liberal Party (surprise), I get their mailers and emails, and sure enough, I got one from Dion today whining about the fact that the Conservatives have more money and they spent it on ads saying mean things about him.

If thats their idea of fund raising instead of being honest and saying that they spent themselves into oblivion with zero results, I expect its going to be hard for them to pick up any kind of money.

I've lost a ton of respect for Dion and the Liberals, instead of standing up and saying we had a bad platform, we lost touch with you the Voter, they lost because the Prime Minister said mean things about him.

Bleah.

[Resolute 14]

Well, that and that argument is totally hypocritical given the bushharper ads, and all of the other attacks.

[JerzeeGirl]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would normally agree with you, but there can't be a double standard. Its strongly implied that any english candidate has to have a strong grasp over french, in fact Harper took a lot of critisism for his lack of french language skills and worked very hard to upgrade it. It should be fair in that a leader from Quebec can also speak both official languages fluently. Also since the Prime Minister has to do a lot of business with English speaking countries he should be fluent in English.

I felt bad for Dion, however his pronouncement earlier in the Campaign that he was a nationalist when he was quebec, and his comprehension issues in English really hurt his standings outside of Quebec.

TBH I completely agree with you however, I was watching CBC Sunday news one slow day (sorry no link, it was just a conversation btwn the hosts) and they mentioned part of the difficulty Dion had with English was due to a hearing impairment. It's not a total excuse but it is a bit of bacground on why he would have some additional issues in English. (And honestly have you paid attention to Harper or Layton in French - Layton isn't bad but Harper is still kind of an automaton.)

Here's a link from the Globe & Mail dealing with it:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../lifeMain/home

[HOOT]

Liberals would have got my vote if they would have done this about 2 weeks ago.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by JerzeeGirl

TBH I completely agree with you however, I was watching CBC Sunday news one slow day (sorry no link, it was just a conversation btwn the hosts) and they mentioned part of the difficulty Dion had with English was due to a hearing impairment. It's not a total excuse but it is a bit of bacground on why he would have some additional issues in English. (And honestly have you paid attention to Harper or Layton in French - Layton isn't bad but Harper is still kind of an automaton.)

Here's a link from the Globe & Mail dealing with it:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../lifeMain/home

I always thought that it was convenient that his hearing impairment only came up after he blew his CTV interview. Not necessarily saying I don't believe him, but usually when a politician screws up they make up an excuse. And Harper might be an automaton, but he understands and speaks french at a pretty proficient level.

[Resolute 14]

Well, if this doesn't describe how the Liberals are running right now. I just got a mailer for my Liberal candidate today.

He's only a week late.

And it was delivered to my DOOR.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

wait.....I don't believe it.....Phaneuf is a Liberal...no way!

[TimSJ]

I don't see McKenna going this time around. He would only want to be PM in my opinion and unless there was a real strong possibility that the liberals would win he won't go.. He is making big bucks in the private sector now and is enjoying life.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by TimSJ

I don't see McKenna going this time around. He would only want to be PM in my opinion and unless there was a real strong possibility that the liberals would win he won't go.. He is making big bucks in the private sector now and is enjoying life.

With McKenna as leader, though, there is a real strong possibility that the Liberals would win.

Harper had everything going for him this past election -- the Liberals had their worst election result ever, and there was vote-splitting on the Left while the CPC was alone on the Right. Despite all that, Harper still failed to win a majority. To me, this says that the CPC (at least with Harper as leader) has peaked while the Liberals have likely hit rock bottom.

[Resolute 14]

Are the Liberals leftist or centrist?

And why does it always seem to change to match the convenience of the argument being made?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

With McKenna as leader, though, there is a real strong possibility that the Liberals would win.

Harper had everything going for him this past election -- the Liberals had their worst election result ever, and there was vote-splitting on the Left while the CPC was alone on the Right. Despite all that, Harper still failed to win a majority. To me, this says that the CPC (at least with Harper as leader) has peaked while the Liberals have likely hit rock bottom.

Honestly thats an over simplification. In the rest of Canada Harper pretty much had his majority, in Quebec he didn't. To me that shows that the values in the rest of Canada are pretty much the opposite of the values in Quebec, and if you sell your soul to one, you lose the other, and I really don't think that there's a balance point that you can successfully use.

I also think its going to be far harder for the Liberals then just appointint a new leader, I don't think thats going to fix their problems. I think the Liberal party is way to casual in its approach and it took the voters for granted. Basically they have a fairly arrogant attitude and they believe that they can pretty much say or promise anything and the people will vote for them, and thats plainly not the truth.

The Liberal message is confused and dead, where do they stand, because if they stand as a leftist party which Dion is and with Rae is they get slaughtered in the vote splitting. If they shift to the right with Ignatieff then they confuse their voter base, and I really don't think that there's a central position anymore.

Beyond that, I'm hoping that common sense prevails and the Liberals decide to focus on rebuilding their party and trying to dig their way out of debt and let this government do its job for 3 or 4 years, instead of blocking legislation not because its bad legislation, but because it wants to force the government to fall.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Are the Liberals leftist or centrist?

And why does it always seem to change to match the convenience of the argument being made?

To the left of the conservatives on every issue, but I find it difficult to pin down what their base ideology is. They seem to just identify the conservative viewpoint and drift off it.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Are the Liberals leftist or centrist?

And why does it always seem to change to match the convenience of the argument being made?

The Liberals are a centre-left party (as opposed to the centre-right CPC and far-left NDP) whose policies can move slightly to either side of the spectrum depending on the leader or issue. Historically, when the Liberals have been in power, they've tended to be more centrist, and when they're in opposition, they've been more left-wing.

Consider, for example, Paul Martin. His fiscal policies were centre-right (balanced/surplus budgets, paying down the debt, lowering corporate taxes, etc.), but his social policies were more on the left side of the spectrum (legalizing gay marriage, decriminizing possession of small amounts of marijuana, etc.)

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I always thought that it was convenient that his hearing impairment only came up after he blew his CTV interview. Not necessarily saying I don't believe him, but usually when a politician screws up they make up an excuse. And Harper might be an automaton, but he understands and speaks french at a pretty proficient level.

Far be it from me to stand up for Dion, but he disclosed his hearing impairment 4 weeks before he blew his CTV interview.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its hilarious, but as a subscriber, part member of the Liberal Party (surprise), I get their mailers and emails, and sure enough, I got one from Dion today whining about the fact that the Conservatives have more money and they spent it on ads saying mean things about him.

If thats their idea of fund raising instead of being honest and saying that they spent themselves into oblivion with zero results, I expect its going to be hard for them to pick up any kind of money.

I've lost a ton of respect for Dion and the Liberals, instead of standing up and saying we had a bad platform, we lost touch with you the Voter, they lost because the Prime Minister said mean things about him.

Bleah.

This thread left me behind when I read this! Who would eve dream that out of the two of us you are the card carrying Liberal!!?