Canadian French Language debate

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by jammies

You clearly missed out on the 80s, or you would know that with sufficient hairspray, hair becomes functionally equivalent to cast iron.

I knew girls who used enough hairspray that their heads would stay six inches off the pillow when you went to bed with them. Sexy!

I was 4 1/2 when the 90's rolled in, so I would not know about such things.

[BlackArcher101]

I have it running the background... so not really paying attention... but I heard something about harper being the last free world leader that is doing something that he shouldn't be doing because the other person (bush) is leaving and for that reason he's not right for the job. Sounded like a big load of BS with no substance said at all... a pure attack at him. What kind of debate is this? The only thing it's making me lean towards is being generally apathetic regarding canadian politcs.

The questions are stupid as well. Some of them are a waste of debate time and normally wouldn't be considered a factor in an election or normal political duties.

[arsenal]

that's why i hate canadian political debates. There are too many people for any one person to get their point across. As soon as someone says something, one of the others jump in and start trying to get their point heard. Too many people, not enough time, and it turns into a big shouting match.
If they did a week long, one on one with each of the leaders with masbridge or something like that, that would be much more helpful, and informative.

[ikaris]

i really didn't enjoy the specifics of this debate. I am starting to realize that I have a huge problem with the voice and stage that the Bloc Quebecois have on our country. Alberta has a population of 3.3 million and Quebec has a population of 7.5 million (according to the 2006 census).

Personally i'm a very left leaning individual except with respect to fiscal policy. When comparing the total seats available, Quebec has 75 and Alberta has 28. Basically we are proportionally represented, but I would suggest that the conservative domination here has no regional benefit.

It's not like i'm suggesting separation or something foolish of that nature. I'm just apalled that the BQ have such influence considering their limited national presence. They really need to be marginalized.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by ikaris

i really didn't enjoy the specifics of this debate. I am starting to realize that I have a huge problem with the voice and stage that the Bloc Quebecois have on our country. Alberta has a population of 3.3 million and Quebec has a population of 7.5 million (according to the 2006 census).

Personally i'm a very left leaning individual except with respect to fiscal policy. When comparing the total seats available, Quebec has 75 and Alberta has 28. Basically we are proportionally represented, but I would suggest that the conservative domination here has no regional benefit.

It's not like i'm suggesting separation or something foolish of that nature. I'm just apalled that the BQ have such influence considering their limited national presence. They really need to be marginalized.

Well by those numbers we aren't represented the same. Quebec has a representation of 1 MP for every 100,000 people and Alberta has an 1 MP
for every 117,000 people. 17% disadvantage.

[Devils'Advocate]

Well, number of seats is typically based on past census numbers, but we haven't caught up to the 2006 census yet. Alberta's population grew by leaps and bounds between those census and continues to grow now. Given the boom and influx of people it may be a while before the seatsopulation ratio is the same between Alberta and Quebec.

As for the Bloc, so long as they don't read a surge in the polls as an increased interest in separatism, then they are benign. The recent swing towards the Bloc is due to people not knowing where to park their vote. They don't like the Conservative policies and don't want to see them get a majority. However, they are still stinging from the Liberal sponsorship scandal (most of those that took the money and ran were in Quebec, which they see as backstabbing). This leaves a lot of people not knowing where to go. The NDP and Greens are excruciatingly slowly picking up support, but most see the only party capable of keeping the Conservatives *AND* Liberals out of office is to vote for the Bloc.

And the Bloc definitely is going to put Quebecs needs first. Certainly above the needs of the rest of the nation. If there was a party that you knew was going to go to Ottawa and fight for the needs of Alberta above the needs of the rest of the country you might be inclined to vote for that party. (Some would say we're already there) I know more than a few people that have voted for the Bloc their entire lives but have absolutely zero interest in separation. They just feel that their policies best match their own world view EXCEPT for separation.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by arsenal

If they did a week long, one on one with each of the leaders with masbridge or something like that, that would be much more helpful, and informative.

They are, but to the best of my knowledge Harper is the only one not willing to do it. Well, correction somewhat. The format, if I remember correctly, is talking with Mansbridge but also fielding questions from the public - by this I mean one person asking a question on videotape (i.e. no question follow up, etc) and then the leader responds.

From what I remember, Harper's campaign said he would do it - as long as there were no questions asked as described above...

[loob job]

Is anyone surprised that it is all yelling? Ever watch when someone speaks in the House about something, there are hecklers all throughout that as well. It's a joke.

[Resolute 14]

So, basically, the four parties spent most of their time attacking Harper and telling us why we shouldn't vote for the Conservatives, and very little time explaining why we should vote for them.

Sounds typical of a debate in this country.

[transplant99]

According to this Ipsus poll...

Dion was the clear winner!!

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...c-115a2e6296a2

[BlackEleven]

I liked the part where each leader had to say something nice about another leader! It's like being in Jr. High!

[CaptainCrunch]

I guess Dion won, but he didn't do enough to change his fortunes long term in terms of seats. He didn't really explain or even do a good job of defending the green shift, and he pulled his 30 day economic plan out of his ass and didn't do a great job of explaining that. I think on the economic plan he even took his own party by surprise on that one.

Layton I thought did ok, but he had an easy time of it because no one went after his ridiculous platform because the format wasn't about questioning the opposition about their platforms, it was all about gang banging the PM in a concerted and almost team like effort.

Duceppe I've always said is a smart man, but I don't know how to judge him because as a Canadian I find his party and its platform to be completely repugnant and undefendible. His idea of opting out of the Canadian Health Care system while having Canadians paying for that opt out pissed me off.

Elizabeth May was a waste of time, but gave team opposition another shrill screaming voice to shout over Harper. To me on the whole say a nice thing about the person next to you, she came across like a complete idiot on that with the backhand to Harper. She's a one trick pony with one party platform, and we get it, we're in mortal danger, but she and the greens will never be anything but a fringe protest party because they don't understand jack about governing a country and the shifting priorities centered around the economy.

I was surprised at how subdued Harper was on this, but again I thought this was a bad format for a debate because the Prime Minister had to spend the entire debate defending himself and his party and he was the only one that actually had to be aware of actual numbers and spending. He couldn't show any fire because of the pre-conceived notion that when a Right Winger shows fire he's evil and arrogant and a big meanie, but when a member of the opposition does it, they're passionate and firey.

All in all this wasn't a debate, it was a lets yell at the prime minister, bring up the states and allude to hidden agendas format.

I would expect that we will see more of the same tonight, but I think Harper will be more comfortable in an english setting, and I'm really hoping that he goes after Dion and his green shift and his 30 day plans.

But I did realize one thing last night, I wouldn't do a good job in these debates because I do have a temper.

Moderator - "Prime Minister Crunch do you have any closing statements"

Prime Minister Crunch - "Yes, Yes I do. Jack, I need to know who's going to pay for all of your programs when you drive business out of town, are you going to print money like the German's before WWII, hey I've got it, you can create an exit tax for all the people that are leaving.

And Duceppe, you want to seperate and be a separate nation do you? Fine then separate, but I'll just fill out the termination notices for all francophone civil servants in the government because we don't need them anymore. Oh and we'll bill you for all of the government property in quebec, and your share of the national debt, oh and in terms of democracy we demand that you hold a referendum for anglos and the native population to see if they want to join your francophone paradise. We'll start taxing you on the use of the seaway, and we're canceling all Quebec Hydro projects immediately. the rest we'll send a demand letter to you tommorrow.

Oh and Stephane, really, enlighten me, please explain to me how your green shift is anything but a cash grab to transfer money from oil producing products to your pet projects in Liberal voting areas. Also please illustrate this 30 day plan for us in more detail, but please wipe the poo off of the napkin that you wrote it down on.

And Elizabeth, dear Elizabeth, your here because I allowed you to be here, your party is a one platform one trick party with one foot in a lake of ridiculous, and another foot on a banana peel, I appreciate your concern for the environment, and we will work to hit our targets and goals without damaging the fragile economy or destroying business.

In closing f$$k you all, I'm outtie, oh and have a live handgrenade as a girf from me. O'doles rule"

[MarchHare]

And Duceppe, you want to seperate and be a separate nation do you? Fine then separate, but I'll just fill out the termination notices for all francophone civil servants in the government because we don't need them anymore. Oh and we'll bill you for all of the government property in quebec, and your share of the national debt, oh and in terms of democracy we demand that you hold a referendum for anglos and the native population to see if they want to join your francophone paradise. We'll start taxing you on the use of the seaway, and we're canceling all Quebec Hydro projects immediately. the rest we'll send a demand letter to you tommorrow.

I always thought it would be a cool plot for a movie to have Quebec pass a referendum to become a sovereign nation, but then the Montreal area and regions with large native populations had their own referendums to re-join Canada. When the new Quebec government doesn't recognize the results of those referendums, Ottawa sends in the Canadian Forces to "liberate" those areas.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I always thought it would be a cool plot for a movie to have Quebec pass a referendum to become a sovereign nation, but then the Montreal area and regions with large native populations had their own referendums to re-join Canada. When the new Quebec government doesn't recognize the results of those referendums, Ottawa sends in the Canadian Forces to "liberate" those areas.

Ah just solve that problem with Sens vs. Habs.

[loob job]

Great post Captain Crunch.

[Cactus Jack]

It is interesting to see most Quebecers thought the winner of the debate last night was Dion.
________
JUSTIN BIEBER FANS

[Finner]

The problem with the Green party is that there entire party is based on a problem. Therefore it is in there best interests to either A) not solve the problem effectively, or B) Create fake problems to solve in the first place.

Way to one dimensional to be a reasonable governing party.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I was surprised at how subdued Harper was on this, but again I thought this was a bad format for a debate because the Prime Minister had to spend the entire debate defending himself and his party and he was the only one that actually had to be aware of actual numbers and spending. He couldn't show any fire because of the pre-conceived notion that when a Right Winger shows fire he's evil and arrogant and a big meanie, but when a member of the opposition does it, they're passionate and firey.

Well, Harper is pretty much in the drivers seat now. He can afford to be subdued and be more picky about his fights. It's the same reason why Chretien was able to carry his swagger for so long and let the others fight it out. The opposition parties always need to be more reactionary in these debates.

If you recall, when Harper was the opposition leader, he was as whiney as any of them... red in the face and demanding apologies every 5 minutes. He was a weiner until he got into power.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by transplant99

According to this Ipsus poll...

Dion was the clear winner!!

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...c-115a2e6296a2

The polls this next week will be very interesting, to see if these trends bear out into general polling, particularly in Quebec. The two most worrying things for the PCs:

Furthermore, 20 per cent of respondents said they changed their mind about who to vote for on Oct. 14.

The Ipsos Reid poll also asked respondents to measure whether their impressions of the leaders improved, or worsened. Pollsters then determined their net score.
Dion was once again on top with a net improvement of 56 per cent, the largest gain among the leaders. Layton improved with a score of 48 per cent, while Duceppe improved by 30 per cent. May's position improved among voters, who scored her with a net gain of 24 per cent. Harper suffered the biggest drop, with 53 per cent finding their impressions worsened.

Those two stats cited together should be cause for concern. You've gotta think that the vast majority of those 20% who changed their mind have changed their minds away from the Conservatives. Now obviously, even if maybe 15% of people who watched the debate have changed from Conservative voters to another party, this is going to have only a trickle-down effect in the general polls, as debate watchers make up only a small percentage of voters (although I'd guess that it's higher in Francophone populations than in the general public).