Would you work for a tobacco company?

[icarus]

I bumped into a guy I knew the other night who works for an investment bank. I asked him how it was and he said he feels as though he's working for Satan. He said he'd rather be working for his old company, British American Tobacco. So take from that what you will.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by icarus

I bumped into a guy I knew the other night who works for an investment bank. I asked him how it was and he said he feels as though he's working for Satan. He said he'd rather be working for his old company, British American Tobacco. So take from that what you will.

Given how the investment banks have screwed so many hard working people out of their life savings, I can see why someone could lose sleep working for them. However, selling a product that kills people I think would be worse.

Interesting that the OP's wife is solely concerned about how others, including their children, would perceive them. There is no ethical conundrum for the OP or his wife.

As to the original question, I was hired by a consulting company that told me that if I came in for a year and worked on project X doing Cobol, they would see to it that in year 2 I would be transferred to an Oracle project, which is really what I wanted to be doing. At the end of year one they came to be and offered me a choice. I could stay on doing the COBOL project or I could go to the Oracle project for Phillip Morris. Neither being appealing, I simply quit the company. There was no way in hell that I was going to put my talents behind helping Phillip Morris sell more death sticks.

The way I see it, I work about half of my non-sleeping life. I need to see that time as being productive... as something adding to society. Producing oil, even polluting tarsands oil, is necessary to keep people warm and keep society moving... should we be moving towards cleaner energy - absolutely. But I do see producing oil as contributing to society as it now stands. I don't see any redeeming qualities to working for a tobacco company.

BTW - I *DID* also turn down a job with Irving given their incredibly poor environmental record. Even within oil production, there are shades of grey. Some companies are trying to produce oil responsibly while others are simply trying to make the most profit possible. I don't think there is a responsible way of selling cigarettes.

[flip]

I definitely don't understand why you wouldn't take the job.

The point about what you'd tell your kids shout be moot as they're not 18 yet and as such you should have a say in their actions, as it is illegal to smoke if you're under 18.

Personally I find tobacco no less of a stigma, in terms of employment, as working with liquor, gaming, oil, insurance or perhaps the biggest ######s in the universe politicians! Everyone needs to make a living and the people who do choose to smoke and die are doing it of their own accord, fully aware of all risks involved. Driving a sportsbike can be dangerous too, but people still do it knowing the risks. Regardless of the fact that smoking kills if used properly, it is still a choice and a legal profession.

[Bobblehead]

If you are questioning it now, how much are you going to enjoy the job in the long run? It doesn't even really matter that it is tobacco, the fact that you and/or your family are uncomfortable about it probably means you should pass.

Is your wife or you going to feel more comfortable about the job as time passes, or less comfortable? Are you going to enjoy going to work? When someone asks you what you do will you be able to answer with pride?

If you can't answer yes to all those questions than how much "success" will you really have?

I'm not a "the ends justify the means" type of person, but that is me.

[CrazyCaper]

Thanks everyone for the input. I've talked to many people over the last few days to gain some of their insight on the subject. For the most part, whether I was speaking with smokers or non, most people think of it as a legitimate job. No different than working for a liquor distributor or for an O&G producer. I don't see this as the end of my career path, moreso a stepping stone in my sales career.

I plan on doing quite a bit of soul-searching over the next 24hrs. In the end I'm sure I'll make the best decision possible for myself & my family.

Thanks again,
CrazyCaper

[Dion]

Has the wife changed her views since your original post?

[CrazyCaper]

Somewhat I guess. I informed her that the company I currently work for transports cigarettes on a regular basis for a supplier in Calgary. Does me working directly for the distributor differ that much from my company transporting them for the supplier? I don't think so. I still profit from this business through profit sharing and such.

I have a feeling she'll support me in whatever decision I make.

[Kybosh]

It's all about the benjamins baby.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by flip

Driving a sportsbike can be dangerous too, but people still do it knowing the risks.

I drove a sportsbike once. Can't say I got addicted to it.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CrazyCaper

Somewhat I guess. I informed her that the company I currently work for transports cigarettes on a regular basis for a supplier in Calgary. Does me working directly for the distributor differ that much from my company transporting them for the supplier? I don't think so. I still profit from this business through profit sharing and such.

I have a feeling she'll support me in whatever decision I make.

Good to hear she'll support you either way.

Best of luck and i'm sure you'll make the right decision for you and your family

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

As to the original question, I was hired by a consulting company that told me that if I came in for a year and worked on project X doing Cobol, they would see to it that in year 2 I would be transferred to an Oracle project, which is really what I wanted to be doing. At the end of year one they came to be and offered me a choice. I could stay on doing the COBOL project or I could go to the Oracle project for Phillip Morris. Neither being appealing, I simply quit the company. There was no way in hell that I was going to put my talents behind helping Phillip Morris sell more death sticks.

Interesting approach, but it is kind of remote isn't it? I work for Oracle but I don't consider that I really helping Phillip Morris sell more deathsticks. Oracle also provides products and services to tons of Health Departments and Authorities around the world. Maybe it is different if you were working strictly in the capacity for Phillip Morris.

[RougeUnderoos]

I heard that a prominent Calgary advertising company turned down the PhillipMorris.com account a year or two ago, supposedly because of the "taint" that comes along with shilling cigarettes (though I'm not sure of that, but that's what was said at the annual meeting).

I smoke cigarettes, but I would feel a little queasy spending my days trying to sell as many of them as possible to other people, or even worse, recruiting new smokers.

On the other hand, many of of us are employed in the business of selling crap that none of us need and is, in the end, bad for the earth and everyone on it.

"If you don't do it someone else will" is a pretty weak rationale for taking a job but it's true. "Everyone else is doing it" is also weak, but that's true too.

[icarus]

It's funny but the BAT recruitment ads in magazines here say nothing about what the company does, just casually alluding to 'consumer products' but going to great pains to explain all the great benefits of working there and how happy all the employees are.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I heard that a prominent Calgary advertising company turned down the PhillipMorris.com account a year or two ago, supposedly because of the "taint" that comes along with shilling cigarettes (though I'm not sure of that, but that's what was said at the annual meeting).
.

Yeah that rumor is true and from what I know the decision had a lot to do with fears that they would lose a lot of good employees if they took the account.

I used to work in the advertising biz and at one point our company was starting to pursue a cigarette account. Thankfully it went nowhere - personally it's not something I was happy about. Would I have quit? Not sure, but it would have been a massive negative.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by icarus

Interesting approach, but it is kind of remote isn't it? I work for Oracle but I don't consider that I really helping Phillip Morris sell more deathsticks. Oracle also provides products and services to tons of Health Departments and Authorities around the world. Maybe it is different if you were working strictly in the capacity for Phillip Morris.

I think you misunderstood. What they were offering me was a consulting position WITH Phillip Morris to write software for them using Oracle Forms and PL-SQL. I would have no problem whatsoever working for Oracle themselves.