Gay Penguins discovered in aquarium

[Red]

Yup, I agree.

In most cases you don't choose to be gay, you are born that way and there is nothing you can do about it.
________
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[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Sammie@Dec 27 2004, 05:05 PM
The gay lifestyle is a learned behavior that has been consciously and freely entered into by its proponents.

When did you choose to be straight? Was it a specific event that sent you "that way" or did you just flip a coin?

[calf]

Originally posted by Sammie@Dec 27 2004, 05:05 PM
The gay lifestyle is a learned behavior that has been consciously and freely entered into by its proponents.

Honest question: what do you mean by gay lifestyle? Do you mean dudes doing other dudes, or are you referring to the flamboyance/femininity of male homosexuals (a stereotype) & the machismo of female homosexuals (also a stereotype). The latter, a learned behavior. The former...not sure. Could be learned, could be "natural" (for lack of a better word).

[Kidder]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Dec 28 2004, 01:23 AM
When did you choose to be straight? Was it a specific event that sent you "that way" or did you just flip a coin?

This is what confuses me most about people who believe homosexuals freely choose to be gay. If you make no concious decision to be straight, why would it be different for anyone else, gay or straight?

The only people who would really have a choice would be people who are 'bisexual' in their sexual preference. These people would have the ability to choose same sex, opposite sex or mixture of both as they are sexually attracted to both. Does this mean that people who see homosexuality as a choice are themselves attracted to both sexes and therefore make the conscious decision to choose one over the other? That would explain, a little, why they see the homosexuality as a choice rather than something you are born with. Otherwise I don't understand why they would make the assumption that just because they didn't choose their sexual preference, other people would. Could just be plain ignorance. I don't know.

Of course this isn't meant to accuse all people with this viewpoint of being bi or secretly gay(in terms of preference), just a theory I have to explain the mindset out there. I thought it had already been widely acknowledged and accepted now, that homosexuality is a result of mainly nature and some nurture, not a free choice.

[Skyceman]

I also have a friend who is now openly gay and even he has openly admitted to it being his "choice".

I would say in part that his change was fueled by his environment and his curiosity. He started to hang with a gay crowd and met a guy and has now moved in with him - left his wife and kid.

What about him?

Again, alot has to do with genetics and environment. I don't believe they are seperate. Why is it that many gay men were at one time sexually abused as a child? Why is it that many men who have submerge themselves in extreme pornography start to treat women as objects? Some men even have the capacity to go to extremes and begin to rape and kill. Why? They have a genetic capacity that if fueled with the right environment can lead to a change in them. Many serial killers have professed this very thing as their downfall into their behaviours.

I may have the capacity to enjoy having sex with dead bodies or animals or whatever thing you can dream up but that doesn't mean I must do it. I have a choice to not exercise certain things I deem wrong.

There is a space between stimulus and response and in that space is a choice of action.

[Hack&Lube]

There are gay penguins in Aqariums all around the world. They even featured on the daily show a long time ago.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Skyceman@Dec 27 2004, 07:09 PM
I also have a friend who is now openly gay and even he has openly admitted to it being his "choice".

I would say in part that his change was fueled by his environment and his curiosity. He started to hang with a gay crowd and met a guy and has now moved in with him - left his wife and kid.

What about him?

Again, alot has to do with genetics and environment. I don't believe they are seperate. Why is it that many gay men were at one time sexually abused as a child? Why is it that many men who have submerge themselves in extreme pornography start to treat women as objects? Some men even have the capacity to go to extremes and begin to rape and kill. Why? They have a genetic capacity that if fueled with the right environment can lead to a change in them. Many serial killers have professed this very thing as their downfall into their behaviours.

I may have the capacity to enjoy having sex with dead bodies or animals or whatever thing you can dream up but that doesn't mean I must do it. I have a choice to not exercise certain things I deem wrong.

There is a space between stimulus and response and in that space is a choice of action.

Easy answer to that is that your friend has swung both ways all along. I can't imagine anyone just "picks up" something quite that drastic from hanging out with a "gay crowd". Ditching your wife is much deeper-seeded than "I started to hang out with Dave and decided what the hell, I'll be gay now".

Seriously, could anyone ever convince/teach you to dig the mansex? It couldn't happen to me. I don't mean that in a macho way or a "I'm a hetero superstar", I mean I couldn't kiss a man in a sexual way because it just doesn't appeal to me. Whiskers, bad breath, missing all the good parts, no thanks. Hanging out with a bunch of the best looking gay guys in the world couldn't change that.

I do agree that you can have bizarre predilections that you don't have to act on them, but that doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality. Hitting on dead people and cats is has about as much to do with being gay as it does with being straight. It's interesting to me though that such things get brought up every time this topic is raised.

Gay people and straight people don't have to act on their sexual urges. But they will. I promise. If it's two adults wanting to give each other a little love then they should go for it as far as I concerned. It has no effect on me so why would I care to stop them? Why would I care to say "don't do that"? They absolutely won't listen to me (or you, or anyone else) and why conceivably would they?

[Sammie]

Originally posted by CaramonLS+Dec 27 2004, 06:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaramonLS @ Dec 27 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Thanks for reenforcing the point I was making. The story about the penguins is about animals behaving instinctually in a caged environment. Using it to justify the gay lifestyle is stretching reality and unreasonable. The gay lifestyle is a learned behavior that has been consciously and freely entered into by its proponents.

Ok whoh back this train up.

First off, to the best of my knowledge (from some of my friends who are gay) They did NOT choose to be gay. They were born that way... in no way did they 'make' a choice to like men/women, it just happens that thats the way it is.

What about them?[/b][/quote]
I find it hard to believe anyone is born to be gay. Unfortunately, too many people avoid taking responsibility for the choices they make. It's SO much easier to say their problems were caused by somebody or something else.

Talk to the homeless, the alcoholic or drug addict, a murderer, a rapist, or a thief and chances are good they won't admit they, themselves, are the reason why they're in the fix they're in. They usually blame everything and everybody but themselves.

Life is nothing more than making personal choices and living with the resulting consequences--good or bad. If you choose to be different . . . Be different! Just don't force your choices on the rest of society.

[CaramonLS]

Allow me to relate the experiences of my former roomate... He is asian, grew up in a family values setting, moved to Canada when he was 15 (still living in a "family environment" with his orginal parents) - by the time he was 13-14ish he knew he didn't like women, he was attracted to men.

During age 16-18 he tried to date women, went out with a few girls - didn't like it - wasn't attracted to them in the slightest.

At age 19 he finally came out of the closet and started telling his friends, hes never had a gay sexual encounter... but men are what turns him on.

Dude he TRIED to be straight. You can't honestly beleive that all gays have some choice to whether they like men or not.

[RedHot25]

[quote]Originally posted by Sammie@Dec 28 2004, 03:08 AM

Talk to the homeless, the alcoholic or drug addict, a murderer, a rapist, or a thief and chances are good they won't admit they, themselves, are the reason why they're in the fix they're in. They usually blame everything and everybody but themselves.

Woah for this one...

Ok, my apologies for going off-topic a bit, BUT....

So you honestly think that someone who is homeless CHOOSES to be homeless?

Did you know that the vast majority of homeless people have a mental illness, that often results in them losing their jobs? not being able to have functional relationships with people?

Or that there are A LARGE portion of "Working homeless". Those people, that aren't "those lazy bums on the street who do nothing but panhandle by choice"...BUT in fact actually HAVE jobs, have families, etc....but live pay cheque to pay cheque and can't actually even AFFORD a place to live DESPITE their JOB?

I sure would choose to be out in the streets on -30 degree weather!

Yup, I'm sure that they chose that.

I don't mean what I am saying to be in a harsh tone, so my apologies, but...

A person CHOOSES to be an addict? So its their fault that for some people it may be a disease? Maybe its mental health again?

Look, I'm not saying that people don't need to be held accountable. They do. BUT...everything is not always the individual's fault like you stated.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Sammie@Dec 27 2004, 08:08 PM
Be different! Just don't force your choices on the rest of society.

What force? Forcing what on who? What is being forced on you? Try to be specific please and avoid clichés like "their agenda" or "destroying marriage" because those are foolish arguments that don't mean anything.

[duncan]

Damn it, I new that legalizing gay marriage would lead to this.

[Sammie]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Dec 27 2004, 10:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Dec 27 2004, 10:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Sammie@Dec 27 2004, 08:08 PM
Be different! Just don't force your choices on the rest of society.

What force? Forcing what on who? What is being forced on you? Try to be specific please and avoid clichés like "their agenda" or "destroying marriage" because those are foolish arguments that don't mean anything.[/b][/quote]
Please clarify for me what "clichés" are. Be more specific. Do you have a more inclusive definition of a cliché? Because if everything in life is a cliché than any discussion is pure foolishness. Then any person who claims to be right is always right and anyone this "right" person claims is wrong is always wrong and not worth taking seriously. That seems to describe a closed minded society that is very intolerant.

Are we going pick apart the words we use to express an idea or is it more important to learn from each other in this discussion?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Sammie+Dec 28 2004, 12:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sammie @ Dec 28 2004, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

What force? Forcing what on who? What is being forced on you? Try to be specific please and avoid clichés like "their agenda" or "destroying marriage" because those are foolish arguments that don't mean anything.

Please clarify for me what "clichés" are. Be more specific. Do you have a more inclusive definition of a cliché? Because if everything in life is a cliché than any discussion is pure foolishness. Then any person who claims to be right is always right and anyone this "right" person claims is wrong is always wrong and not worth taking seriously. That seems to describe a closed minded society that is very intolerant.

Are we going pick apart the words we use to express an idea or is it more important to learn from each other in this discussion? [/b][/quote]
In other words, your answer is "I can't provide specific examples of anything being forced on me so I will change the subject".

[FlamesAddiction]

Some animals display homosexual tendencies even in the wild. For instance, some male birds will nest together and never procreate. Adolescent giraffes have also been know to have sex with giraffes of the same gender. Don't forget bonobo chimpazees either. Most of them of completely bisexual.

I don't have time to look for links, but I did a google search on the topic before and homosexual activity in the animal kingdom is not really all that rare.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

since I'm snowed in and can't drive to Halifax, and can't go to work, I decided to read this thread, and the responces.

My first gut reaction is still the same after reading everyone's views

"Who Cares?"

There are gay penguins at some zoo, somewhere... so what? You know, I'm a 22 yr old male, I've been attracted to women since I started being attracted to others, BUT since there are gay penuins in, what was it, Japan... screw this! Enough with this boobs and pretty hair stuff

Yes, there are gay animals... so?
There have been gay humans hundreds of years now... so?

In Ancient Greece it was considered an honour to fight along side your lover... so?

Do genertics factor into the mix? Yep, it's not a 100% concious choice, the guy that went off on the homeless needs his/her head checked. My grandfather used to go to the funerals for the homeless, and would say we have NO RIGHT to judge them, you don't know what they've been through. I can't imagine what he went through going to a homeless man's funeral, knowing him from serving in the war (why he would, he used to say "some people can handle it, some can't")

I don't know what some of these guys went through, I know they have to sleep on the street, and beg for change. I don't want to do that. Halloween night, I was walking on Quinpool Rd in Halifax going to pick up a pizza for supper. A homeless man asked me for some change, I only had a $20 on me, and I can't afford to give that up, so I said "I'll get you on the way back" he asked "really?" I just told him "oh yeah" then on the way back I gave him whatever change I had from the pizza (like two bucks or something) the look on his face when he saw me walk up, he said "you actually came back!" I said "I told you I would". He's human just like the next guy, I'll give him change when I've got it to spare, it's not like he chooses to freeze himself nearly to death. I don't want to be outside right now.... nor does he.

Homeslessness isn't a choice, it's a condition.

Being gay isn't a choice, it's the way you're born.

What's next? Getting Alzhiemer's is a choice? Getting cancer is a choice? Having a heart-attack or a stroke is a choice?

We don't choose everything we do; some of it is instinct, some if it we're born reconditioned, some of its environment, and some of it is choice.

Back to the thread

gay penguins? So?

[nfotiu]

That is a whacked post Q.

My yellow lab is gay. He only humps male dogs at the dog park. I believe he was conditioned to be gay though. My wife dressed him up in lily pulitzer pink dog collars when he was a puppy, of course he turned out gay.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally posted by nfotiu@Dec 28 2004, 05:18 PM
That is a whacked post Q.

My yellow lab is gay. He only humps male dogs at the dog park. I believe he was conditioned to be gay though. My wife dressed him up in lily pulitzer pink dog collars when he was a puppy, of course he turned out gay.

I said I was straight, no where did it say I was normal

[Skyceman]

Originally posted by nfotiu@Dec 28 2004, 02:18 PM
That is a whacked post Q.

My yellow lab is gay. He only humps male dogs at the dog park. I believe he was conditioned to be gay though. My wife dressed him up in lily pulitzer pink dog collars when he was a puppy, of course he turned out gay.

I know you were joking around, nfotiu, but what your dog is doing is showing dominance.

My 3 year old German Shepherd is very dominant and does this as well. Most often if he encounters another dominant dog, a fight will ensue.

[Sammie]

Okay, so we won't discuss this like adults. :darnkids: I'll pray for you guys. :innocent: