Russia/Georgia back to war...

[llama64]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There was a video game loosely based on this kind of thing happening. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. One of those games where you are in control of a bunch of special forces soldiers and you have to do missions. What was it? It's driving me nuts.

Set in South Ossetia and Moscow at one point. Not Rainbow Six but like that.

Are you thinking of Operation Flashpoint: Coldwar Crisis?

From what I've read about this "war" is that it's Russia telling the West to question the possibility of Georgia in NATO. If they were in NATO, Canada would be at war with Russia now.

Also, Russia considers Georgia a terrorist state (direct comparison to US vs Iraq/Iran). The US is basically neutered in this situation, especially during an election year. Bush cannot react with any sort of military response without tanking his own party in the election.

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There was a video game loosely based on this kind of thing happening. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. One of those games where you are in control of a bunch of special forces soldiers and you have to do missions. What was it? It's driving me nuts.

Set in South Ossetia and Moscow at one point. Not Rainbow Six but like that.

Splinter Cell? I think there's some missions set in Georgia...

Perhaps SOCOM? I've got no idea, just tossing a couple options out there haha.

[RougeUnderoos]

Ghost Recon 1. I just remembered. That was a good game.

[HOZ]

Here is some information. A good start to understanding what is happening.

South Ossetia.

BTW: Russians are the peacekeepers there

I said a while back that I had a feeling that nothing good was going to come from Kosovo independence.

[Calgaryborn]

McCain's response:

This afternoon I spoke, for the second time since the crisis began, with Georgian President Saakashvili. It is clear the situation is dire. Russian aggression against Georgia continues, with attacks occurring far beyond the Georgian region of South Ossetia. As casualties continue to mount, the international community must do all it can to avert further escalations. Tensions and hostilities between Georgians and Ossetians are in no way justification for Russian troops crossing an internationally recognized border. I again call on the Government of Russia to immediately and unconditionally withdraw its forces from the territory of Georgia.

Given this threat to Euro-Atlantic security, I am pleased to see the United States, the European Union, and NATO acting together by sending a delegation to the region, in an effort to broker a cease fire. This is an important first step.
The United Nations has been prevented from taking any meaningful action by Russian objections. In view of this, I welcome the statements of democratic nations defending the sovereignty of Georgia and condemning Russian actions.
I strongly support the declaration issued by the Presidents of Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, and their commitment that 'aggression against a small country in Europe will not be passed over in silence or with meaningless statements equating the victims with the victimizers.'

I share their regret that NATO's decision to withhold from Georgia a Membership Action Plan may have been viewed as a green light for aggression in the region. As they propose, a new international peacekeeping force should be created, in light of -- as they observe -- the 'obvious bankruptcy of Russian "peacekeeping operations" in its immediate neighborhood.' In addition, Finnish Foreign Minister Stubb, the Chairman of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, has said there can be no return to the status quo in South Ossetia and that Russia cannot serve as a mediator in the South Ossetian conflict. Each of these leaders represents a country that has undergone what Georgia is now experiencing.

Obama's response:

It’s both sides’ fault — both have been somewhat provocative with each other.

[FlamesAddiction]

Most South Ossetians are Russian citizens, so Russia does owe them some protection.

[Azure]

Okay, I'm sure Obama had a longer response then that.

Seriously. ?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Azure

Okay, I'm sure Obama had a longer response then that.

Seriously. ?

“I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected. All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia, and the United States, the United Nations Security Council, and the international community should fully support a peaceful resolution to this crisis.”

Certainly not as strongly worded as McCain's, but it, like McCain's, calls for the Russians to withdraw. Nowhere in this statement does he suggest that the Georgian's aren't victims here. Perhaps Calgaryborn saw a different statement, or perhaps he's reading something different into this one.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by HOZ

BTW: Russians are the peacekeepers there

That is funny. I don't think anyone buys it as Russia openly support South Ossetia.

They're there for the same reason that U.S. troops are in several countries... to protect their interests in the region. It's either their right or it isn't, but if it isn't, then it's a double standard.

Don't get me wrong, I am very critical of Russian foreign policy, but what they are doing isn't unique.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Most South Ossetians are Russian citizens, so Russia does owe them some protection.

That's kind of a sketchy rational because the whole reasoning behind offering South Ossentians passports is that it would piss off Georgia.

BTW, how many people have had to explain the difference between Georgia the republic and Georgia the state over the last few days.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I said a while back that I had a feeling that nothing good was going to come from Kosovo independence.

Yeah, a precedent has been set.

Isn't the simplest solution to let the Ossetians decide their own future by way of an internationally monitored referendum?

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They're there for the same reason that U.S. troops are in several countries... to protect their interests in the region. It's either their right or it isn't, but if it isn't, then it's a double standard.

Don't get me wrong, I am very critical of Russian foreign policy, but what they are doing isn't unique.

Completly agree. It's a very strategic part of the globe. McCain isn't helping anything either by discussing Georgia and NATO at this point in time

[Azure]

Originally Posted by octothorp

“I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected. All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia, and the United States, the United Nations Security Council, and the international community should fully support a peaceful resolution to this crisis.”

Certainly not as strongly worded as McCain's, but it, like McCain's, calls for the Russians to withdraw. Nowhere in this statement does he suggest that the Georgian's aren't victims here. Perhaps Calgaryborn saw a different statement, or perhaps he's reading something different into this one.

Insert a different conflict, and it almost seems like an automated response.

Obama has to do better than that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

That's kind of a sketchy rational because the whole reasoning behind offering South Ossentians passports is that it would piss off Georgia.

Sure, but the majority of South Ossetians still accpeted it and it's what they want.

If Quebec ever became independent as Georgia did from the Soviet Union, then I would hope that Canada would offer Canadian passports to the remaining federalists.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Sure, but the majority of South Ossetians still accpeted it and it's what they want.

If Quebec ever became independent as Georgia did from the Soviet Union, then I would hope that Canada would offer Canadian passports to the remaining federalists.

yes and no. The Soviet Union splitting up is different then one region leaving a country. A better analogy would be confederation and having Ontario offer passports to people in Hull while the rest of the world thinks Hull is still part of Quebec. But I understand what you're saying.

[FlamesAddiction]

An interesting note is that there are actually more ethnic Ossetians in Russia and Turkey (600,000 and 100,000 respectively) than there are in South Ossetia.

[Flame Of Liberty]

I think this is a perfect example of the kettle and pot scenario.

It is OK for Georgia to separate from Soviet Union and gain independence, but it is not OK for South Ossetia to separate from Georgia...

and

It is OK for Russia to support South Ossetia as it tries to gain independence, but it is not OK to grant indepence to Chechnya as it tries to separate from Russia...

It would be laughable if it wasnt tragic.

In other news, Russia imposes naval blockade on Georgia.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080810...unrestblockade

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Azure

The UN isn't going to pick sides.

They're just going to tell everyone to quit killing each other.

Looks like they can't even do that!

It comes as a third emergency session of the UN Security Council ended without an agreement on the wording of a statement calling for a ceasefire.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7552012.stm

Apparently, they've narrowed it down to "cut it out", "stop that now"', "give it a rest" and "get a f'in life!'".

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Looks like they can't even do that!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7552012.stm

Apparently, they've narrowed it down to "cut it out", "stop that now"', "give it a rest" and "get a f'in life!'".

Pretty typical.

The individual countries within the Security Council might do more, but I never expected the UN to do anything about it.

[peter12]

Just like Yugoslavia, this will quickly become a NATO operation. The UN is good at some things, terrible at international security.

[Azure]

The US is flying the 2,000 troops Georgia has in Iraq back as we speak. Russia has apparently begun bombing the larger airfields.