Whats wrong with this picture?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It may not be an either or situation for the States right now but with the USA going further into debt every day [and one of the biggest wastes is Iraq], it cuts down on the possibility of increasing health care spending. In other countries this is an 'either or' [more commonly guns or food] situation so the moral question is right there. This is enough of a reason for me to say there is something wrong with this picture.

Hey, I'm all for keeping health costs down but when one side of the face is saying that, while the other side is wasting money on a fun war, I'm not impressed.

Impressive.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sure is.



Waste, really? Okay, from the outset, it WAS a bad idea. But now? You must have missed the AP article that actually 'said' the US was winning in Iraq. Micheal Yon has said the US has WON in Iraq. A waste? Don't you think the US owes it to the Iraqi people to at least rebuild their country after basically destroying it in 2003? I hardly call that a waste. Again, bad idea to begin with. Good idea to continue with.

And should I even mention that it has cost the US less than 5% of their budget the past 7 years? Again? Because you seemed to have missed that part the first time around.

Secondly, US GDP the past 7 years is clocked at over 91 'trillion' dollars. Yes, you read that right. So the 'GWOT' has cost 1/91 of the US GDP in the past 7 years. That would be 1% of the total GDP during that time. Staggering? It blows your argument out of the water. But of course, you can continue to discount actual 'facts' from the US Department of the Treasury, and keep rambling on about something that makes absolutely no sense if you want, but you're dead wrong.



Increasing health care spending? During the past 7 years, the US, as a country has spent $14 trillion dollars on health care. The US government has spent an average of $600 billion per YEAR on Medicare, and Medicaid, which in total equals $4.2 trillion spent by the Federal Government on Health Care the past 7 years. And you want to 'increase' health care spending? You do realize that by 2016, at the rate health care spending is increasing in the US right now, they're going to spend $4.2 trillion, per YEAR on health care? And here you are, worried that the US isn't putting enough money into their health care system.



Yeah, you know whats wrong with it though? The fact that billions of dollars are being wasted each year on a broken system. THAT is whats wrong with this picture.



Again, the war has absolutely nothing to do with the poor quality of health care in the United States. I know you love to jump on the anti-war bandwagon whenever you can, but you're DEAD wrong here.

Its like beating a dead horse.

It all boils down to this. You can't say you don't have enough money for one essential when you are knowingly wasting it somewhere else. Wasting it to kill people is not only not impressive, it's outrageous and why this example was used but you can use another example if you like.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Impressive.

Yeah, I know you still believe that Bush believed that Saddam had WMD.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It all boils down to this. You can't say you don't have enough money for one essential when you are knowingly wasting it somewhere else. Wasting it to kill people is not only not impressive, it's outrageous and why this example was used but you can use another example if you like.

There is more than enough money for health care.

Your point makes absolutely no sense.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

There is more than enough money for health care.

Your point makes absolutely no sense.

If there is, why is this woman being denied?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

If there is, why is this woman being denied?

Uhhh, because it is not part of her health care plan....

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Uhhh, because it is not part of her health care plan....

If I remember correctly the woman was denied because of cost, but you say there is more than enough money..

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

If I remember correctly the woman was denied because of cost, but you say there is more than enough money..

Read the article again and tell me where it said that.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Read the article again and tell me where it said that.

You're kidding right?
Tell me than, if the drug cost $10 / mo., do you think it would be approved?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You're kidding right?
Tell me than, if the drug cost $10 / mo., do you think it would be approved?

And how much exactly do you think it costs to have the doctor legally kill you?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

And how much exactly do you think it costs to have the doctor legally kill you?

You first.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Azure

And how much exactly do you think it costs to have the doctor legally kill you?

Just a guess.

Doctor bill: 3000
Legal Bills: 50000
Funeral: 3000

[flamey_mcflame]

1) It is amazing how people still interchange the words invasion with war. This has never been a war. The U.S. bullied its' way into a foreign country under both false pretenses and false evidence. Here in Canada, we don't have to call it "the war on terror". That term is used so Americans can feel like they are doing something good for their country and the world. If anything, the case can be made that the American war machine is really the terrorists.

The saddest part of the Iraq situation is the quagmire that the US keeps getting into. Lets see:

A) Support Saddam in the 70's and 80's because the Sunni Muslims are moderate and more receptive to US foreign policy and less likely to appease Iran.

B) Attack Saddam in the 80's because he is hurting their stable oil supplies in the west.

C) Kill Saddam in the 2000's to end his dictatorship and reestablish democracy.

So, lets see if I got this correct. The American war machine has spent countless billions of dollars, cost thousands of American military personnel their lives and has led to international condemnation of the United States to do a full circle.

Because once Iraq becomes this great democracy that Dubya, that warmonger, envisions, guess who will become the elected government in Iraq. Thats right, the Shia' Islam population. Which just so happen to be religion of choice in, you guessed it, Iran. Good job USA, if it wasn't for you guys, where else would I get my jaded and cynical outlook on life from.

War on Terror Liberates the World. Thank you USA.

[Bagor]

10. Could euthanasia or assisted suicide be used as a means of health care cost containment?
Yes. Perhaps one of the most important developments in recent years is the increasing emphasis placed on health care providers to contain costs. In such a climate, euthanasia or assisted suicide certainly could become a means of cost containment...........

.......For example, the Oregon Medicaid program pays for assisted suicide for poor residents as a means of "comfort care."(40) In addition, spokespersons for non-governmental health insurance plans have said the coverage of assisted suicide is "no different than any other covered prescription."(41)

Legalized euthanasia or assisted suicide raises the potential for a profoundly dangerous situation in which the "choice" of assisted suicide or euthanasia is the only affordable option for some people.

http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/faq.htm

[flamey_mcflame]

The health care system is broke. Regardless of whether it is private or public, the costs for surgeries, prescriptions and modern treatment has made health care this massive vacuum sucking up every dollar it can find.

The only way to reduce the costs is for countries to stop having so many old people. They love spending our tax dollars on health. Unfortunately, limiting lifespans will probably not be a vote getter in any future election. So, its time to institute Flamey's genetic, stem cell and cyborg revolution. All our problems would disappear. I just need the rest of the world to accept the truth. All in due time.

[OilersBaby]

ok I had to put in my 2 cents on this when i read the original post and comments. As a Canadian who moved to the USA 8 years ago, I worried about the health care system, especially because I was going to study there at first and not work.

It hasn't been a problem for me, and the way I see it is as long as you have a full time job, your employer will cover it and you dont have to pay. I feel like for me, health care is BETTER than what I could have in Canada becuse it doesnt take forever to get referred to a specialist or anything. My dad has cancer and before it was diagnosed, it took him long times to get appointments for things like CT Scans etc...in the US you will get it the next day because there are so many doctors and so many machines.

I also dont pay a cent because my husband has insurance through his job and all family members (me) are covered...and the same goes for my job. I have insurance where all family members are covered (me and him)..the dual coverage not only gives us free health insurance, but waives copays that most people have to pay, reduces our deductible, and gives us FREE prescription medicine, visits to the dentist, free contacts each year (24 pairs a year) etc. Even if you work full time at a grocery store or department store, you get the same benefits (health care)...I'm not saying anything wrong with working at those, I did it when in school, Im just saying that you dont need to have a professional position, just be employed full time and you are covered.

So for people who dont work or are unemployed it is harder because they have to pay for their own health care, if you work you will be ok. ..for people that are unemployed, its tough.

But you dont suffer waiting for appointments...one of my friends moms had severe arthritis, making it impossible to walk for a long time. She wouldnt be able to walk for more than 10 mins without needing to rest her knee. She lives in Calgary. The appt to see the rheumatologist (arthritis specialist) took SIX months. In the US (i have worked at a hospital in the past) and my mother in law has arthritis and she lives in the US, it takes about 1-2 days to get an appt to see any specialist......so you dont suffer or your condition doesnt worsen.

Sorry for rambling, I just had to say my point..that before you get so opinionated on another countries health care system, you should realize that your own isnt perfect either.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

ok I had to put in my 2 cents on this when i read the original post and comments. As a Canadian who moved to the USA 8 years ago, I worried about the health care system, especially because I was going to study there at first and not work.

It hasn't been a problem for me, and the way I see it is as long as you have a full time job, your employer will cover it and you dont have to pay. I feel like for me, health care is BETTER than what I could have in Canada becuse it doesnt take forever to get referred to a specialist or anything. My dad has cancer and before it was diagnosed, it took him long times to get appointments for things like CT Scans etc...in the US you will get it the next day because there are so many doctors and so many machines.

I also dont pay a cent because my husband has insurance through his job and all family members (me) are covered...and the same goes for my job. I have insurance where all family members are covered (me and him)..the dual coverage not only gives us free health insurance, but waives copays that most people have to pay, reduces our deductible, and gives us FREE prescription medicine, visits to the dentist, free contacts each year (24 pairs a year) etc. Even if you work full time at a grocery store or department store, you get the same benefits (health care)...I'm not saying anything wrong with working at those, I did it when in school, Im just saying that you dont need to have a professional position, just be employed full time and you are covered.

So for people who dont work or are unemployed it is harder because they have to pay for their own health care, if you work you will be ok. ..for people that are unemployed, its tough.

But you dont suffer waiting for appointments...one of my friends moms had severe arthritis, making it impossible to walk for a long time. She wouldnt be able to walk for more than 10 mins without needing to rest her knee. She lives in Calgary. The appt to see the rheumatologist (arthritis specialist) took SIX months. In the US (i have worked at a hospital in the past) and my mother in law has arthritis and she lives in the US, it takes about 1-2 days to get an appt to see any specialist......so you dont suffer or your condition doesnt worsen.

Sorry for rambling, I just had to say my point..that before you get so opinionated on another countries health care system, you should realize that your own isnt perfect either.

Ours may not be perfect but i'll take ours over yours. At least people here aren't forced to into bankruptcy because they can't afford the medical bills.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Dion

Ours may not be perfect but i'll take ours over yours. At least people here aren't forced to into bankruptcy because they can't afford the medical bills.

Versus waiting in line to die.

Bankruptcy vs death....a tough choice. Had it out with a good Minne-friend of mine. American vs Canuck. We each argued for the other's system.