Henry Morgentaler receives Order of Canada - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Torture · 07-03-2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Half? More like one-quarter, if that. According to this 2005 survey, 52% of Canadians are happy with current abortion laws and a further 20% would like to see the laws relaxed. Only 24% of Canadians wanted to see more strict abortion laws.

Just because you're happy with current abortion laws doesn't mean you have to agree that he deserves the award.

Personally, I'm fine with the abortion laws the way they are, I'm pro-choice. But does he really deserve the Order of Canada?

Flames89 · 07-03-2008, 07:23 AM

If we are talking about abortion - I am all for it, no matter the reason, within the first 3 months. Birth control, what-have-you. What better than a natural selection process whereby the species selects themselves out of it?

As far as this Order of Canada? This man put his beliefs in freedoms in front of his life. Whether you like what version of freedom he was fighting for - is irrelevant. My grandmother received the Order of Canada for her work with First Nations. Believe me, back then there were several people who were not impressed with her "cause".

The Order of Canada recognizes "a dedication to the community", and this guy has been dedicated to Canada for better or worse - regardless of your belief-system.

Bring_Back_Shantz · 07-03-2008, 09:22 AM

I really don't like this.
I don't really care either way on the abortion issue.
I think it should be an option, but I also think that too many people see it as a safety net.

Either way, I don't think that this is something that should be honored with the Order of Canada.
To me that honour should go to people who Canadians Universially agree represent the values of the country, or people who Canadians can identify as a signifigant cultural icon.

Who would argue that someone like Terry Fox should get it? I think that's a great example of the first.

What about Don Cherry? Well like him or hate him, I think most people would agree that he has become a pretty iconic Canadian figure.

As for Morgentaler, he certainly fought for a landmark decision, but are abortion laws really something that Canadians see as fundamentally Canadian? I don't think so.
Yes it is a good thing that he was able to make some positive change, but I don't think it is a great enough part of the Canadian Identity to warrant the Order of Canada.

troutman · 07-03-2008, 09:26 AM

Morgentaler was more than just an "abortion doctor". He is respected as a leading humanist. Still, I don't think he should be given this award. The abortion debate is too polarizing.

Personally, I think I am pro-adoption. Abortion in limited circumstances.

Gozer · 07-03-2008, 09:37 AM

I do not think putting a drill bit through an unborn child's skull is worthy of the Order of Canada.

transplant99 · 07-03-2008, 09:45 AM

Im am most certainly on the side of pro-choice though I hate that some women have indeed used it as a way of birth control.

That being said I think it is an abomination that he has received this award, not because of his beliefs or his career, but because he was arrested numerous times for BREAKING THE LAW.

How in the hell can anyone think that giving Canada's highest award to a convicted criminal (no matter what you thought of the laws at the time) is a good idea?

Mind boggling.

MarchHare · 07-03-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im am most certainly on the side of pro-choice though I hate that some women have indeed used it as a way of birth control.

That being said I think it is an abomination that he has received this award, not because of his beliefs or his career, but because he was arrested numerous times for BREAKING THE LAW.

How in the hell can anyone think that giving Canada's highest award to a convicted criminal (no matter what you thought of the laws at the time) is a good idea?

Mind boggling.

Hear, hear! And how dare anyone even think about honouring Nelson Mendela after he BROKE THE LAW and admitted to involvement in sabotage and bombing campaigns against military and civilian targets of South Africa's apartheid government! And Rosa Parks should have obeyed the law and given up her seat on the bus like a good negro should!

transplant99 · 07-03-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Hear, hear! And how dare anyone even think about honouring Nelson Mendela after he BROKE THE LAW and admitted to involvement in sabotage and bombing campaigns against military and civilian targets of South Africa's apartheid government! And Rosa Parks should have obeyed the law and given up her seat on the bus like a good negro should!

Yeah...because its the same thing. Unlike the two you mentioned, Morgentaler had a choice to do things within the law to exact change, he didn't.

But as long as the end justifies the means we should be applauding a certain war in the middle east right?

Mogentaler has done a lot of good throughout his life, i will not disagree with that, but Im sorry that I dont want my counties highest civilian honor going to a convicted criminal and tax evader...I guess I just have higher standards than you.

MarchHare · 07-03-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Yeah...because its the same thing. Unlike the two you mentioned, Morgentaler had a choice to do things within the law to exact change, he didn't.

Civil disobedience is a time-honoured method of protesting unjust laws. Morgentaler's "crimes" were not significantly different from those of Mandela, Parks, or even Gandhi.

Quote:

Im sorry that I dont want my counties highest civilian honor going to a convicted criminal and tax evader...I guess I just have higher standards than you.

So I take it you joined Rob Anders and protested against the Canadian government awarding honourary citizenship to convicted criminal Nelson Mandela?

Boblobla · 07-03-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah...because its the same thing. Unlike the two you mentioned, Morgentaler had a choice to do things within the law to exact change, he didn't.

But as long as the end justifies the means we should be applauding a certain war in the middle east right?

Mogentaler has done a lot of good throughout his life, i will not disagree with that, but Im sorry that I dont want my counties highest civilian honor going to a convicted criminal and tax evader...I guess I just have higher standards than you.

Seriously? Like the previous poster said, Mandella could have not committed human rights violations, Parks could have just stood up and written letters. Would change have been as forth coming? I don't think so.

I am not sure if I am for or against this but your logic is flawed.

transplant99 · 07-03-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Seriously? Like the previous poster said, Mandella could have not committed human rights violations, Parks could have just stood up and written letters. Would change have been as forth coming? I don't think so.

I am not sure if I am for or against this but your logic is flawed.

My last post on this goofiness.

Parks and Mandela would both be muted by authority had they done what you suggest. Morgentaler already had media and a country's attention to go ahead with his cause.

If you REALLY believe that all 3 were somehow in the same boat, then knock yourself out. Most would see the obvious differences I woud think.

Gozer · 07-03-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Civil disobedience is a time-honoured method of protesting unjust laws. Morgentaler's crimes were not significantly different from those of Mandela, Parks, or even Gandhi.

Ghandi executed the defenseless and unborn?

Boblobla · 07-03-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

Ghandi executed the defenseless and unborn?

ROFLMAO, your opinion. To me, they are not even people.

Russic · 07-03-2008, 10:42 AM

There are very good reasons to have an abortion and unfortunately there are very bad reasons. Even though it is unsettling that people use it as a form of birth control, it is imperative that it remain accessible to those who truly need it. I also believe that if we made abortion illegal today, there would be many kids born into absolutely terrible lifestyles of abuse and neglect. The opposite would also happen, but as terrible as it sounds I'm not sure I think that's worth it.

Gozer · 07-03-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boblobla

ROFLMAO, your opinion. To me, they are not even people.

You should read up on what your buddy Gandhi thought of abortion.

transplant99 · 07-03-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

So I take it you joined Rob Anders and protested against the Canadian government awarding honourary citizenship to convicted criminal Nelson Mandela?

Again...no where near being realted to what i said...but keep on obfuscating, it truly strengthens your arguments.

I find it odd you keep trying to relate me to Apartheid, Civil rights violations and now one of Canadas stupidest public figures of all-time....and that I would somehow support them

Say what you mean man. Don't be afraid I can take it.

J pold · 07-03-2008, 10:53 AM

I’m pro-choice but I can understand the other side of the argument and I realize how polarizing it is which is why I don’t think Morgentaler should receive the award

MarchHare · 07-03-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Again...no where near being realted to what i said...but keep on obfuscating, it truly strengthens your arguments.

I find it odd you keep trying to relate me to Apartheid, Civil rights violations and now one of Canadas stupidest public figures of all-time....and that I would somehow support them

Say what you mean man. Don't be afraid I can take it.

Your earlier post in this thread said that you don't support granting Morgentaler the award not because you disagreed with his views on abortion but because you don't think someone who "BROKE THE LAW" should be recognized by the government.

To quote you again:

Quote:

That being said I think it is an abomination that he has received this award, not because of his beliefs or his career, but because he was arrested numerous times for BREAKING THE LAW.

How in the hell can anyone think that giving Canada's highest award to a convicted criminal (no matter what you thought of the laws at the time) is a good idea?

You made no further elaboration to indicate that perhaps your views were more nuinced then simply "Convicted criminal = no government honours". It was logical to conclude, then, that you agreed with Rob Anders' position that Nelson Mandela should not be honoured by the Canadian government because he too "BROKE THE LAW" and was a convicted criminal.

Boblobla · 07-03-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

You should read up on what your buddy Gandhi thought of abortion.

My buddy Gandhi? My comment was about your opinion of abortion...

Gozer · 07-03-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boblobla

My buddy Gandhi? My comment was about your opinion of abortion...

Whoop, that wasn't you that brought him up. My bad.