Crate Training Puppies

[redforever]

And take away the water hour or two before they go to sleep.

[BuzzardsWife]

Question: I clean someones house and they have a Lab and they keep it in a crate all day long, at least 8 hours at a time, probably more like 9 though. This crate is not that big, the dog can't stand in it. Is this not cruel? I feel so sorry for the dog, I sneak and let him out and let him run around the yard for 3 hours while I work there. But what about the 4 days a week I'm not there? I feel sick for him, am I overreacting? I don't know anything about crates or dogs for that matter.

[Old Yeller]

A crate should be big enough so that the dog can stand up and turn around in it. But not so big where they have so much room that they may be inclined to go to the washroom at one end of the crate. So can you clarify what you mean when you say, he can't "stand in it".

8 hours is about the max amount of time that you want to leave a dog crated, as long as the dog isn't just a pup it's not necessarily "cruel" if the dog was properly introduced to the crate.

I know you feel sorry for the dog, but if he got bored and wasn't crated he could potentially hurt himself... seriously he's a lab, he'll eat anything.

[BuzzardsWife]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

A crate should be big enough so that the dog can stand up and turn around in it. But not so big where they have so much room that they may be inclined to go to the washroom at one end of the crate. So can you clarify what you mean when you say, he can't "stand in it".

8 hours is about the max amount of time that you want to leave a dog crated, as long as the dog isn't just a pup it's not necessarily "cruel" if the dog was properly introduced to the crate.

I know you feel sorry for the dog, but if he got bored and wasn't crated he could potentially hurt himself... seriously he's a lab, he'll eat anything.

well he's about 8 months old..i just cant imagine a playful pup in a crate for 8 hours..but if that's how they are supposed to do it then i just have to accept that..i just feel sad for him, if you cant keep a big dog in a yard or in a run i just don't think you should have him period..people don't think about that before they get a dog..it is cruel if you ask me, even if that's the way you are supposed to do it

[Old Yeller]

You're painting a pretty broad stroke there.

I could turn around and say that people who would buy a dog and leave him out all day in a yard or dog run where he's exposed to the elements, has the potential of getting into something that would hurt himself, or heaven forbid escaping out of the yard are being horribly cruel to the dog.

[BuzzardsWife]

ok..i take back the dog run part..i dont think they should get big dogs period in a city..i think its cruel..unless they are with them all the time

[redforever]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

ok..i take back the dog run part..i dont think they should get big dogs period in a city..i think its cruel..unless they are with them all the time

That is a bunch of malarchy. It does not matter on the size of the dog - it depends on how the owner takes care of that dog. So as long as they are loved and taken care of well, any size dog is fine.

What is the difference between a small yapper and a big barker if you attend to their exercise needs etc? No matter what the size of the dog, they all miss you if you are not there.

What people should take into account when getting a dog is their lifestyle and how a dog will fit into that lifestyle and adapt. If your lifestyle is so busy that you are gone for most of the day and then all you do when you get home is eat and sleep, you should not have a dog period.

Actually, under those circumstances, you should consider a pet rock instead of a live animal.

[BuzzardsWife]

[quote=redforever;1362067]That is a bunch of malarchy. It does not matter on the size of the dog - it depends on how the owner takes care of that dog. So as long as they are loved and taken care of well, any size dog is fine.

What is the difference between a small yapper and a big barker if you attend to their exercise needs etc? No matter what the size of the dog, they all miss you if you are not there.

What people should take into account when getting a dog is their lifestyle and how a dog will fit into that lifestyle and adapt. If your lifestyle is so busy that you are gone for most of the day and then all you do when you get home is eat and sleep, you should not have a dog period.

Actually, under those circumstances, you should consider a pet rock instead of a live animal.[/quote
thats exactly what ive been trying to say the whole time! sticking a dog in a kennel for 8 or nine hours a day is sick if you ask me..if you dont have time for an animal, then dont get it..and big dogs stuck in a house or crate or day is not acceptable to me..they belong on a farm..

[Old Yeller]

If you couldn't tell by now BuzzardsWife, I have a large breed that we crate trained up until he was about 6 months old. Now we keep him confined to the kitchen during the day while we're away.

He gets a 2 to 3 mile walk in the morning, another one in the evening, and 2 to 3 days out of the week we'll hit a dog park as well.

How he manages to cope with these extremely cruel conditions I'll never know.

Your "arguments" are pretty ignorant.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

thats exactly what ive been trying to say the whole time! sticking a dog in a kennel for 8 or nine hours a day is sick if you ask me..if you dont have time for an animal, then dont get it..and big dogs stuck in a house or crate or day is not acceptable to me..they belong on a farm..

Sooo...anyone who has a job should not have a dog? Is that really your argument?

In anycase, update on my puppy. She is getting better in the crate, she will go in there to sleep whenever she is tired but she still doesn't like to be in there if she is awake and wanting to play. We've left her alone for a couple hours in the basement where it is significantly cooler with a radio playing music and that seems to make her a little more settled if she's not ready to sleep.

Night time is still a nightmare. We took suggestions on here and have not let her whining dictate the schedule because she would have us up every hour if she could. Typically, nights start off really well. She's very quiet and will wake up right around the time we have an alarm set to go off to take her out anyways. Then she'll do her business and will settle back into her crate with minimal noise. Then a couple hours later, just before we had planned to take her out she gets reallly noisy. We've tried settling her down by putting a hand in her crate with her but that doesn't really work for more than a couple minutes. We tried taking her outside during this time incase she had to go again, but she is just ready to play.

Any suggestions on how to get her to settle down for a longer period during the night?

[dustygoon]

Whatever you do, don't force the pup in there. They have to associate it with being a good place they want to go, not a punishment. I would never use the crate to punish the dog (aka a time-out). I have a pretty well trained dog (gets paper, birds, walk off leash and stops at curb, goes to the kennel when i say "kennel", etc). It all comes from using little treats! Say kennel and throw a treat into the kennel. It will take a while....minutes....hours maybe, but you have to watch it. AS SOON as the puppy goes in you have to give some huge adoration....lots of "good puppy" and more treats. Positive association or whatever you/they want to call it.

My breeder told us to throw a shaker can against the kennel to stop him from whining....i couldn't do it!!

This book is FANTASTIC:

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Owners-Gr.../dp/0446675385

[BuzzardsWife]

so the 8 hours in the kitchen isnt cruel? ????????? wow..some people have different ideas of how animals should be treated! i think people like you should be charged with animal cruelty..imho..but dogs will always be treated like..well..dogs! 2 walks a day doesnt make up for the 8 hours of sitting in a kitchen all day..you shoulda got a hamster, they dont mind cages

[Old Yeller]

No, I don't consider it cruel at all, especially seeing as he has food, water, and plenty of toys. This may be quite hard for you to comprehend (as you've demonstrated numerous times throughout this thread), but he's very much loved, very much one of the family, and very well cared for.

Please though, bring on the animal cruely charges.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

so the 8 hours in the kitchen isnt cruel? ????????? wow..some people have different ideas of how animals should be treated! i think people like you should be charged with animal cruelty..imho..but dogs will always be treated like..well..dogs! 2 walks a day doesnt make up for the 8 hours of sitting in a kitchen all day..you shoulda got a hamster, they dont mind cages

I'll cut you some slack as you're clearly not a dog owner. But dogs like kennels. After she was crate trained, I took the door off my second dog's kennel. She still spends around 12 hours a day in there--of her own volition. They like the feeling of a "den."

In fact, my dogs often sleep in the kennel together--or compete for the space if they're feeling less cuddly. A kennel can be a happy place for a dog--if you let them have the run of the house, they become destructive--because they're stressed out. Our world is a bewildering place for them. The kennel is one place where they feel safe and in control.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

so the 8 hours in the kitchen isnt cruel? ????????? wow..some people have different ideas of how animals should be treated! i think people like you should be charged with animal cruelty..imho..but dogs will always be treated like..well..dogs! 2 walks a day doesnt make up for the 8 hours of sitting in a kitchen all day..you shoulda got a hamster, they dont mind cages

Well now, most people sit in their office for 8 hours a day too, don't they?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I'll cut you some slack as you're clearly not a dog owner. But dogs like kennels. After she was crate trained, I took the door off my second dog's kennel. She still spends around 12 hours a day in there--of her own volition. They like the feeling of a "den."

In fact, my dogs often sleep in the kennel together--or compete for the space if they're feeling less cuddly. A kennel can be a happy place for a dog--if you let them have the run of the house, they become destructive--because they're stressed out. Our world is a bewildering place for them. The kennel is one place where they feel safe and in control.

As do mine. The kennel is their comfort zone. Now that mine are grown, they sleep in their kennels at night, sometimes on their own as you say, sometimes together, sometimes the cat joins them too.

However, now that they are grown, the kennel door is left open. They just go in there because it is their den and they prefer to sleep there. We will lock one of our dogs in, if like today, there is a big thunderstorm. Poor guy is scared stiff of thunder and only thing that settles him down is to put him in his kennel and put a big blanket over so it is dark inside. Then he settles down right away.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by redforever

As do mine. The kennel is their comfort zone. Now that mine are grown, they sleep in their kennels at night, sometimes on their own as you say, sometimes together, sometimes the cat joins them too.

However, now that they are grown, the kennel door is left open. They just go in there because it is their den and they prefer to sleep there. We will lock one of our dogs in, if like today, there is a big thunderstorm. Poor guy is scared stiff of thunder and only thing that settles him down is to put him in his kennel and put a big blanket over so it is dark inside. Then he settles down right away.

Good post red. Sounds like Mr. Thunderstorm proves my point exactly. He's scared, he's uncomfortable--and what he needs is not affection, which dogs generally get a ton of, but a secure zone where he can feel safe and in control. So he goes into his kennel, where he knows he's safe, and that relaxes him.

Dogs don't need lots of space. They need lots of exercise--and that's a completely different thing.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

And just in case there's a need for photographic evidence of my dogs' love of their kennel:

[STAMPEDRED]

Originally Posted by FFR

Sooo...anyone who has a job should not have a dog? Is that really your argument?

In anycase, update on my puppy. She is getting better in the crate, she will go in there to sleep whenever she is tired but she still doesn't like to be in there if she is awake and wanting to play. We've left her alone for a couple hours in the basement where it is significantly cooler with a radio playing music and that seems to make her a little more settled if she's not ready to sleep.

Night time is still a nightmare. We took suggestions on here and have not let her whining dictate the schedule because she would have us up every hour if she could. Typically, nights start off really well. She's very quiet and will wake up right around the time we have an alarm set to go off to take her out anyways. Then she'll do her business and will settle back into her crate with minimal noise. Then a couple hours later, just before we had planned to take her out she gets reallly noisy. We've tried settling her down by putting a hand in her crate with her but that doesn't really work for more than a couple minutes. We tried taking her outside during this time incase she had to go again, but she is just ready to play.

Any suggestions on how to get her to settle down for a longer period during the night?

Pups learn quick as you already have noticed that she wakes up and wants out before your coming down to check on her. And you know even more that she is playing you cause all she wants to do is play. The dog seriously does not need bathroom breaks. They can hold it all night at the age you brought them home. If your kennel is too big then one end will be the washroom and the other the den area. Your dog will avoid the area she messed in like the plague if your crate is too big. So you have zero worries that your dog will go in the crate if it is the right size because that is their bed.

Just keep in mind that the habits you make now you have to be willing to keep them up for a long time like always having the radio on to "soothe" the dog. Your best bet is like another poster said is take away their water a couple of hours before bed, let them out to do their business just before bed time and then they are in there until you get up in the morning. They are not a baby where you do need to get up for them when they cry.

If the dog is driving you insane with whining, stick their crate somewhere in the house where you can't hear them and can get a full night of sleep for yourself. The dog will eventually get the point that it is bed time - and it will be sooner than later. If this doesn't help by moving their crate, then during the day at some time when you make a run to the store, stick the dog in the crate and leave. The dog will soon give up whining, usually within 5 minutes actually, and just go to sleep until you get home and will be excitedly waiting for you to play with again!

[FFR]

Originally Posted by STAMPEDRED

Pups learn quick as you already have noticed that she wakes up and wants out before your coming down to check on her. And you know even more that she is playing you cause all she wants to do is play. The dog seriously does not need bathroom breaks. They can hold it all night at the age you brought them home. If your kennel is too big then one end will be the washroom and the other the den area. Your dog will avoid the area she messed in like the plague if your crate is too big. So you have zero worries that your dog will go in the crate if it is the right size because that is their bed.

Just keep in mind that the habits you make now you have to be willing to keep them up for a long time like always having the radio on to "soothe" the dog. Your best bet is like another poster said is take away their water a couple of hours before bed, let them out to do their business just before bed time and then they are in there until you get up in the morning. They are not a baby where you do need to get up for them when they cry.

If the dog is driving you insane with whining, stick their crate somewhere in the house where you can't hear them and can get a full night of sleep for yourself. The dog will eventually get the point that it is bed time - and it will be sooner than later. If this doesn't help by moving their crate, then during the day at some time when you make a run to the store, stick the dog in the crate and leave. The dog will soon give up whining, usually within 5 minutes actually, and just go to sleep until you get home and will be excitedly waiting for you to play with again!

I find that very interesting becuase everything else I have heard or read says that we need to get up in the night to let the puppy to go out to use the bathroom because they aren't able to hold it that long. Because believe me, I'd love to get a full night of sleep. I'm just surprised because everyone else has said something different.

Now that we have gotten up for her to go to the bathroom the past few nights we'll probably have to taper it down to only getting up once and then not at all...