Your classmates are dead.....ok, they aren't - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Traditional_Ale · 06-03-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I'm with you on this one Traddy. MADD has designed their tactics on campaigns that have run in Australia which are way more shocking and traumatic than anything MADD has done in Canada, and the Australian anti-drunk driving campaigns have been highly effective. Besides, I think people in general nowadays are so jaded and desensitized that it takes a little shock and awe to break through their indifference. And if these kids can't take a little bit of simulated trauma, they ain't gonna make it far in the real world. Life can be brutally harsh, so a little conditioning can only help prepare them for the reality that is looming in front of them.

All this exercise is is a little bit of simulated reality ... since when is simulating reality grounds for a law suit? Are we getting that feeble and fragile as a society?

In drivers-ed through AMA when I took the course they showed the Australian MADD commercials. The pregnant lady getting t-boned and miscarrying on the side of the road was brutal!

ANYTHING it takes to get this message out. I don't really have the time or patience to pander to the emotional sensibilities of self-deluded nitwits.

Gozer · 06-03-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

II think people in general nowadays are so jaded and desensitized...

And this'll help?

What does the class bully do to top this? How does the class clown do something unacceptably-over-the-top? How do the "cool" kids tell each other about the kid that did die?

What's off limits if not this?

Traditional_Ale · 06-03-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

What's off limits if not this?

Driving drunk.

Ford Prefect · 06-03-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

And this'll help?

What does the class bully do to top this? How does the class clown do something unacceptably-over-the-top? How do the "cool" kids tell each other about the kid that did die?

What's off limits if not this?

I don't get the connection between shock value as a teaching tool and the class bully/class clown.

Gozer · 06-03-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I mean honestly, if kids are going to paint all police with that paint brush (lying, do anything to serve their purpose) well then, I would think that the lesson is going to be lost on them regardless of how it is presented.

That's not honest. They had a cop deliver the news because police officers have a serious role and burden, and don't f@#% around with prank-deaths.

Until now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Some could make the argument that kids are so desensitized already, they had to resort to this type of delivery.

Why stop there?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093894/

Gozer · 06-03-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I don't get the connection between shock value as a teaching tool and the class bully/class clown.

It's about reverence.

Not every kid holds him/herself to the standards of an Officer of the Peace.

If fake-deaths are customary for the honourable members of society like police officers to "prank" kids with, then where are the boundaries for scoundrels?

Gozer · 06-03-2008, 05:17 PM

I'm not against their cause, I'm against their effect.

This is an awful thing to do anyone, especially kids at school who a) can't handle such events well, and b) have to deal with the aftermath of their "fake" emotions around a bunch of other immature insecure a-holes.

flylock shox · 06-03-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

It's about reverence.

Not every kid holds him/herself to the standards of an Officer of the Peace.

If fake-deaths are customary for the honourable members of society like police officers to "prank" kids with, then where are the boundaries for scoundrels?

Right on the money.

It's the classic case of the little boy who cried wolf.

As someone who has faked his own death at one point in the past, I can tell you that it's the type of breach of trust that really changes the way people see you. In this case, it's the type of thing that really changes the way kids will see the police. And not in a good way.

MarchHare · 06-03-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

As someone who has faked his own death at one point in the past

OT: you can't just post a line like that and not tell the rest of the story...

4X4 · 06-03-2008, 06:03 PM

I don't know how I'd rather learn the lesson. Unfortunately, I'm learning it as we speak with a friend of mine in the ICU at the Foothills from DD.

Does the end justify the means? I don't know that it's fair to traumatize young people that way. But the message really needs to be hit home to get through to people. I really can't think of a better way, or a worse way. It seems way too over the top but also justifiably graphic. I'm on the fence.

Igottago · 06-03-2008, 06:07 PM

I think its downright irresponsible and gives no thought to the psychological trauma that the kids here are suffering for that moment in time. I'm not even against shock value to a certain point, but this is just too far beyond the line.

Igottago · 06-03-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

ANYTHING it takes to get this message out. I don't really have the time or patience to pander to the emotional sensibilities of self-deluded nitwits.

Well, just realize that with tactics like this, people start to lose respect for the organization, MADD in this case. They go from having a cause everyone supports, to being extremists. Just like PETA...the basis of a good cause, with some very questionable tactics to get the message accross.

And I find it funny that you are automatically assuming the kids were self-deluded nitwits. Maybe these kids get it, and know how dangerous it is to drink and drive.

Devils'Advocate · 06-03-2008, 06:18 PM

I think what the school should do is just wait until someone really does die, since it inevitably happens... but usually it's the family of four that gets killed and the 17-year old doofus that walks away.

I was talking to a friend about this today and how teens are in that "invincible" age and think "hey, I drive better when I'm drunk" or "those laws are for people who can't hold their liquor like I can". I swear, when I have teenagers I'm getting one of these:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1623159.shtml

If what MADD did here was over the line, what is the solution? Handing out pamphlets isn't getting the job done.

moon · 06-03-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

Absolutely ridiculous what if the alleged victims where your close friend or a significant other? Can you imagine the pain that person would feel, even if only a few minutes

If it was a close friend or significant other wouldn't you have known about it before the cop came in and "told" people at school?

I think it is more likely whiney people who like to think that they are friends with more people than they are who are over dramatic that would be affected by this more than anyone.

The same people who cry and moan when someone they spent their entire life trying to ignore dies and it looks good to be sad about their "tragic" death.

Hack&Lube · 06-03-2008, 07:32 PM

That's totally bizarro and messed up man. I think it's pretty ridiculous. For those who are prone to D&D, I don't think it will convince anyone.

4X4 · 06-03-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotze

Do people really think "awareness" is the problem or even one of the top 20 real solutions. Really? How about free no questions asked taxi cabs? REal solutions, because if awareness raising is all they can come up with then this problem will be here for 500 more years.

Or how about more taxi cabs during peak hours? Or maybe transit that runs through the night?

LouCypher · 06-03-2008, 07:58 PM

Well as I see it with the statistics of alcohol related MVA's not taking any kind of drastic decline its obvious that the message isn't getting through to enough people or is being taken for granted. The exercise to me seems like what is needed as a little tug at the heartstrings can have a more profound effect then simple education and stories about people not close to the intended audience.

Superflyer · 06-03-2008, 08:34 PM

As a person who has lost two close friends in high school to D&D in two seperate accidents I find this very senseless and heartless. The hurt and pain that I felt when I found this out was really bad and I still think about them sometimes and wonder why. Then if when I was at their funeral and they walked out and yelled you've been punked, I really have no idea what I would have done. I probally would have hated everyone that was in on this.
I know MADD has done some stupid things before but this is one of the worst. I still believe what they stand for but I have lost all respect for them.

BlackEleven · 06-03-2008, 09:59 PM

There are ways to make your message powerful, shocking and meaningful without resorting to trickery and manipulation. This shamelessly exploits emotions that are not meant to be toyed with. I just lost a lot of respect for MADD.

icarus · 06-03-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Umm... wilful infliction of nervous shock anyone?

Probably pretty effective at getting the message across, but not very well thought out. That's just waiting for a case where some emotionally fragile little whelp has a breakdown on hearing his/her best friend is dead, and then sues the police, and probably wins.

Yep. I'd say this organisers got pretty shoddy legal advice before doing this, because this is an established tort and it's just a matter of time before someone sues.