Teacher lets Morningside students vote out classmate aged 5

[fatso]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Asperger's syndrome? HAHA

Talk about the 21st century's fall back excuse for a computer-obsessed, introverted generation.

You're suggesting Asperger's syndrome is not an actual medical condition?

[Tyler]

The medical community has certainly dubbed it an appropriate medical condition.

However, I'm hesitant to concede that these types of "high functioning autistic conditions", where the main concerns are being shy and not socializing very well with other people, in lieu of having no other discernible learning impediments, are anything more than 21st century fluff.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Asperger's syndrome? HAHA

Talk about the 21st century's fall back excuse for a computer-obsessed, introverted generation.

Except for the computer part, that's a 19th century opinion.

Irony much?

[The Ditch]

I just hate how these parents bring up the autism (he isn't even freaking diagnosed with it) like, "Oh, he has autism, so neither he nor us as parents need to take personal responsibilities, you see"

The article is vague though, but there is a huge appeal to emotion to make this kid seem like a perfect little angel.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

I just hate how these parents bring up the autism (he isn't even freaking diagnosed with it) like, "Oh, he has autism, so neither he nor us as parents need to take personal responsibilities, you see"

The article is vague though, but there is a huge appeal to emotion to make this kid seem like a perfect little angel.

I agree with this assessment, but perfect angel or obnoxious hellraiser is irrelevant, the teacher is a complete ######.

Whatever the problems with the kid are/were, this was absolutely the wrong way to deal with it.

In fact, the chosen method of dealing with the problem was very childish in its approach.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Tyler

The medical community has certainly dubbed it an appropriate medical condition.

However, I'm hesitant to concede that these types of "high functioning autistic conditions", where the main concerns are being shy and not socializing very well with other people, in lieu of having no other discernible learning impediments, are anything more than 21st century fluff.

People with AS are not shy and reclusive. They are the exact opposite. They can babble on about something for hours, to complete stranger, without any inclination as to the effect they are having on the other person.

The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome.[2] Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or enjoy spontaneous interests or achievements with others, a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.[1]

Unlike those with autism, people with AS are not usually withdrawn around others; they approach others, even if awkwardly, for example by engaging in a one-sided, long-winded speech about a favorite topic while being oblivious to the listener's feelings or reactions, such as signs of boredom or haste to leave.[3] This social awkwardness has been called "active but odd".[3] This failure to react appropriately to social interaction may appear as disregard for other people's feelings, and may come across as insensitive. The cognitive ability of children with AS often lets them articulate social norms in a laboratory context,[1] where they may be able to show a theoretical understanding of other people’s emotions; they typically have difficulty acting on this knowledge in fluid, real-life situations, however.[3] People with AS may analyze and distill their observation of social interaction into rigid behavioral guidelines and apply these rules in awkward ways—such as forced eye contact—resulting in demeanor that appears rigid or socially naïve. Childhood desires for companionship can be numbed through a history of failed social encounters.[1]

The hypothesis that individuals with AS are predisposed to violent or criminal behavior has been investigated and found to be unsupported by data.[1][14] More evidence suggests children with AS are victims rather than victimizers.[15]

Popular cultural examples of people with (suspected) AS are Chloe from "24" and House from "House".

I'd have a hard time calling either of them shy and reclusive. They simply lack the cognitive ability to empathize with another human being. They know they are (unintentionally) jerks, but their brains just won't allow them to be anything else.

There's even one episode of House where he's treating a kid with Autism and actually bonds with the child. At the end of the episode, Wilson makes a point that the reason House was able to bond with this patient (since he "hates" patients) was because House envied the child for having "true" Autism and, thus, not being expected to reciprocate social norms.

[Azure]

Chloe from '24' isn't shy?

Okay then.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Asperger's syndrome? HAHA

Talk about the 21st century's fall back excuse for a computer-obsessed, introverted generation.

If you were actually informed on Asperger's or any other of the Autism spectrum disorders, i doubt you'd be making this absurd comment.

Neurologists have been learning a tremendous amount about the human brain over the last two decades; just because you haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it does not exist.

FYI, Hans Asperger first identified the condition in 1944...

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Azure

Chloe from '24' isn't shy?

Okay then.

She isn't shy at all. She's quite capable of approaching people and having a conversation whenever she feels like it.

Imagine living your life where everything you've ever said to people has pissed them off, when you're not someone who enjoys pissing people off.

Imagine this conversation between strangers at a bus stop:

Person A: "Looks like it's going to rain today."
Person B: "Well, it's April so that's usually when it rains the most - and besides, it's not like we're all going to melt from it."

Their thoughts as they board the bus:

Person A: "What a jerk..."
Person B: "What a pleasant day, and that was a nice man that I just had a conversation with."

The problem, though, is that Person B will invariably notice the body language of Person A and realize that what they said just upset him... without any idea why it upset him.

Extrapolate an entire lifetime of moments like that and you might come to the understanding that, what one person calls shy, another calls unwilling self-restraint.


Edit: I am in no way an expert on any of this. In fact, I haven't even read a book on it or even did any sort of in-depth research. I could be 100% wrong in all of this, but I'm a pretty perceptive guy so I think I have a general basis of understanding on this subject.

If someone here does have a better understanding of AS, please feel free to correct me.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Asperger's syndrome? HAHA

Talk about the 21st century's fall back excuse for a computer-obsessed, introverted generation.

Actually, Asperger's Syndrome was first identified in 1944, and I don't remember computers being around.

My lil bro has Asperger's and I would be absolutely furious if this happened to him. I would seriously want to go to that school and challenge the "Me VS 100 5 year olds) deal.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Tyler

The medical community has certainly dubbed it an appropriate medical condition.

However, I'm hesitant to concede that these types of "high functioning autistic conditions", where the main concerns are being shy and not socializing very well with other people, in lieu of having no other discernible learning impediments, are anything more than 21st century fluff.

As I said in my previous post, my little bro has it. It's not just a social difference... beleive me.

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by alltherage

My lil bro has Asperger's and I would be absolutely furious if this happened to him. I would seriously want to go to that school and challenge the "Me VS 100 5 year olds) deal.

Once again, this kid doesn't have aspergers (or at least isn't currently diagnosed with it), it is just part of the article to make you feel sorry for him (not that you shouldn't). We need to focus more on the bizarre actions of the teacher.

The teacher surely is getting fired for this right?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Asperger's syndrome? HAHA

Talk about the 21st century's fall back excuse for a computer-obsessed, introverted generation.

Symptoms during childhood

Parents often first notice the symptoms of Asperger's syndrome when their child starts preschool and begins to interact with other children. Children with Asperger's syndrome may:

• Not pick up on social cues and lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking.
• Dislike any changes in routines.
• Appear to lack empathy.
• Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others’ speech. Thus, your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. Likewise, his or her speech may be flat and difficult to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.
• Have a formal style of speaking that is advanced for his or her age. For example, the child may use the term "beckon" instead of "call," or "return" instead of "come back."
• Avoid eye contact.
• Have unusual facial expressions or postures.
• Be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about. Many children with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as doing intricate jigsaw puzzles, designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or astronomy.2
• Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized.
• Have delayed motor development. Your child may be late in learning to use a fork or spoon, ride a bike, or catch a ball. He or she may have an awkward walk. Handwriting is often poor.
• Have heightened sensitivity and become overstimulated by loud noises, lights, or strong tastes or textures. For more information about these symptoms, see sensory integration dysfunction.

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc...drome-symptoms

[Ford Prefect]

NM ... misread a post.

[Dion]

nm

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

just remember though: there's 3 sides to every story and this article seemed just slightly biased.

Agreed. We are probably not getting the whole story.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was similar to the teacher who was fired for teaching wizardry, a reporter who got carried away with one aspect.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Tyler

The medical community has certainly dubbed it an appropriate medical condition.

However, I'm hesitant to concede that these types of "high functioning autistic conditions", where the main concerns are being shy and not socializing very well with other people, in lieu of having no other discernible learning impediments, are anything more than 21st century fluff.

And what are you basing that on, besides personal opinion? I'll be honest, I've never heard of anyone questioning autism as anything besides a real affliction.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Agreed. We are probably not getting the whole story.

True.

But what part of having a teacher encourage a class of kindergarteners to "vote out" a classmate (who may act different than the norm) do you find acceptable? That is the meat of the discussion here.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sounds like a stupid lazy teacher that doesn't realize that her job is to teach everyone. The good students are easy to teach, the bad students or disabled students or whatever are what seperates a good teacher from a bad teacher.

To get her students to do a vote and then tell this kid what they don't like about him is an excercise in imaturity and spitfulness.

Teachers Unions or not, this teacher should have her teaching certification revoked unless she's willing to spend a year teaching special needs kids.

I've had some bad teachers in my day, but a teacher that uses her students to humiliate another student is stupid.

If I was that kids dad, that teacher would have a red impression of my hand on his or her face.

This story rings a little untrue. Red lights are going off. A bit too sensational. There has to be more to this.

Now if it is true, the Administration needs to be tossed along with this Karla Homolka!

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

True.

But what part of having a teacher encourage a class of kindergarteners to "vote out" a classmate (who may act different than the norm) do you find acceptable? That is the meat of the discussion here.

I never said I found anything acceptable. I was just skeptical of the reporting. I would like to hear the teachers side and the schools side of the story. But all we get is the parents side of the story and these:

Portillo could not be reached for comment Friday.
...
St. Lucie School's spokeswoman Janice Karst said the district is investigating the incident, but could not make any further comment.

Vern Melvin, Department of Children and Families circuit administrator, confirmed the agency is investigating an allegation of abuse at Morningside but said he could not elaborate.

I'm not saying I don't believe the story, but I would like to know more. My mother is a teacher and I know that kids get confused about events easily and parents over react a lot. I just think there is more to the story that we are not getting.

And of course I wouldn't support a teacher publicly shaming a kid and putting his attendance in class up to a vote. No one would.