CrossIron Mills

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I hate to be Gloomy Gus, but with all this talk of The R Word, is this kind of thing still feasible?

The Stonegate Landing people are counting on the economy doing well here. They are putting $3 billion into their commercial development.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Addick

What about inducing sprawl?

The sprawl was gonna happen one way or another. This is a part of it, not a cause of it.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The sprawl was gonna happen one way or another.

Yeah, because we continue to allow crap like this to be built.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

This is a part of it, not a cause of it.

While it may not be the root of the problem, in this case it may be the start of a different branch. In the past, developers have used malls to kick start their development of greenfield sites.

[SebC]

I agree... this thing could do to Calgary what West Ed did to Edmonton. But it's worse, because at least West Ed is IN Edmonton. This thing should not exist, or at least should not be leaching off Calgary's water supply.

[Resolute 14]

It isn't leeching off Calgary's water supply. The city closed the reservoir to the project.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Addick

Yeah, because we continue to allow crap like this to be built.

You do have the option of not shopping there, and trying to convince all your friends not to shop there. If there are enough like minded individuals, the mall will flounder and close in short order.

If, however, more people actually do go there to shop the mall will thrive, and inspire other similar projects.

Ain't free enterprise and free will wonderful?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Addick

Yeah, because we continue to allow crap like this to be built.

I sincerely hope you're not the same people that complain that Calgary has nothing to offer

Originally Posted by Addick

While it may not be the root of the problem, in this case it may be the start of a different branch. In the past, developers have used malls to kick start their development of greenfield sites.

I'm not the smartest man in the world, but I think that that may be the exact reason the MD Rockyview is allowing this project to proceed. It creates a tax base and it focuses infrastructure needs. The MD is a business just like Calgary. While it may infringe on Calgary, it is also densifying the MD and reducing 'rural sprawl'.

Originally Posted by SebC

I agree... this thing could do to Calgary what West Ed did to Edmonton. But it's worse, because at least West Ed is IN Edmonton. This thing should not exist, or at least should not be leaching off Calgary's water supply.

Everybody upstream is leeching off Calgary's water supply, right?

Water in this region is strictly regulated. You have no idea how hard it is to get water for a new development. In fact, most of the available water has already been sold to 'water speculators'. And those guys are re-selling it, or at least authorizing the re-distribution of their water. And that doesn't even begin to explore the harvesting of ground water and the reclamation of grey water that gets put back on farm land and hence, back into the ground water system.

Seb, I hate to jump down your throat, but your water point really comes off as uneducated. I'll tell you that my family is working on a development that borders on the Calgary ASP, and water is a huge issue. It isn't just granted loosey goosey.


Arguments about it affecting existing businesses and the environment are warranted, but they'll fall on deaf ears in this capitalist province. And rightfully so. Until we, the people elect a government more conscious of the environment, we'll continue to see massive things like this pop up wherever there is space, and to hell with existing business. Dog eat dog.

[Daradon]

I'd be more worried about what the mall would do to the Balzac and Airdrie retailers than the Calgary ones.

Deerfoot Mall and possibly Sunridge are the only ones that would really have to worry about it (as far as malls go, not really counting the smaller retailers). I doubt anyone for 16th ave N south is going to be heading to that mall very often. Unless they love the horses.

Isn't Balzac basically a burb of Calgary now anyway? How close is it? I know people have been taking about what's going to happen to Airdrie when the city knocks on it's door and Balzac is even closer.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Seb, I hate to jump down your throat, but your water point really comes off as uneducated. I'll tell you that my family is working on a development that borders on the Calgary ASP, and water is a huge issue. It isn't just granted loosey goosey.

I've already been corrected, no need to pile on. I understand that the government has no right to stop it, but I don't think it will be positive for Calgary. And if you don't pay Calgary taxes, you shouldn't be able to tap into Calgary's water supply unless you're paying your fair share for it.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I'd be more worried about what the mall would do to the Balzac and Airdrie retailers than the Calgary ones.

Deerfoot Mall and possibly Sunridge are the only ones that would really have to worry about it (as far as malls go, not really counting the smaller retailers). I doubt anyone for 16th ave N south is going to be heading to that mall very often. Unless they love the horses.

Isn't Balzac basically a burb of Calgary now anyway? How close is it? I know people have been taking about what's going to happen to Airdrie when the city knocks on it's door and Balzac is even closer.

Balzac isn't even incorporated, iirc, so it's just a community within the MD of Rockyview. Based on the development the last couple years, it seems that the MD's plan for Balzac was, at first, to try and turn it into an equivalent to Nisku or Acheson around Edmonton - a giant industrial park on MD land rather than city land. They added a few companies, but not much, then this project came along.

Airdrie is growing south, and Calgary is growing north. Rather than wait for the two cities to annex all of the land with the highest tax potential, the MD is taking its own steps to develop the land and retain its own base. Fair game, imo.

Stonegate Landing is going to move Calgary significantly northward, while Airdrie has Kings Heights under development now, and a community south of that planned for after. By 2014, the corridor between Calgary and Airdrie will be one continuous metropolitan area. It was going to happen anyway, the MD is just getting it's share.

As far as concern for Airdrie businesses go, I've read some of the worries in the Airdrie Echo, but I don't see it, really. The city has had the same concerns over places like Walmart and Superstore coming in. Unfortunately, it is part of the new economic world: the little guy will get squeezed out by the big guy. Any damage CrossIron might have done was already accomplished by Walmart, Superstore, Home Depot, Co-op, and anyone else that's moved in recently.

[Daradon]

^^^ Cool thanks for the info.

So in a few years Calgary will have it's first real burb eh?

[Resolute 14]

Seems like it. Though I might consider Chestermere the first real burb, even if there is still a farmers field between the two. The rush to develop all that land by the airport is what is bringing a lot of this in. Once Stoney Tr. is completed, and the Barlow service road reopens, That will be a fast link between the new industrial area in SE Airdrie and the airport. Given Airdrie has no business tax, the city is banking on bringing companies in that would rather trade an extra 15 minutes to get from their plant to the airport in exchange for lower taxes. They also hope that the development will pressure the province into doing something about the interchange of Hwy 2 and Big Springs Road, which is easily Southern Alberta's largest clusterpuck. I've yet to encounter an intersection in Calgary that gets gridlocked as badly as that one does, simply becuase the province hasn't yet realized that an interchange built for a town of 2000 isn't remotely suitable for a city of 30,000.

Just to add on the business effect in Airdrie: The people that should be worried are those that run Towerlane Mall. But, given how crappy that mall is, I doubt many people in town will care much. If I lived there, I'd defintiely drive the extra five minutes to CrossIron than go to that undersized, over priced, early-1980s tomb.