Counting Cards - Blackjack

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Counting is really just one half of the equation, the other half is knowing how to play perfect "Basic Strategy". If you can play perfect basic strategy I think the house odds against the player are something like .5 to 1.0%. You still play the basic strategy all the time even when counting, you just alter it slightly to do somewhat unusual plays (which is how the dealers/pit bosses start noticing that you're counting) when the count becomes favourable/unfavourable.

Learning perfect basic strategy can take nearly as long as learning how to count.

Not really, it's just basically a table of your two cars and what the dealer is showing.
Hell, if you ask nicely most casios will give you a basic strategy card to play off.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Rathji

The standard way this is used is to have one player who plays min bet the whole time and another who comes along once the deck is hot after getting some type of signal from the player on the table. The new player sits down, bets big and wins then leaves.

And the problem now is that this is the main tell of counting cards where the Casino may lose larger amounts of money. So, they watch players like this VERY closely.

You can't count cards and make too much money by yourself, because someone who changes their bets by such a significant amount is SO easy to spot. If you don't change your bets by a significant amount, the casino will probobly never catch you ( as long as you arent using a device), but they probobly also won't care too much, because you won't be making very much money.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Not really, it's just basically a table of your two cars and what the dealer is showing.
Hell, if you ask nicely most casios will give you a basic strategy card to play off.

Fair enough... you're obviously better at memorizing the 3 charts than I am... it's not so simple for us 'normal' folk. I think I'm pretty much right in what I said though... learning basic strategy can take as long as learning how to count. Getting GOOD at counting can take years... learning how to do it can take less than an hour.

Here are the charts; http://www.blackjackinfo.com/cgi-bin/bjbse.cgi?game=ac6

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Not really, it's just basically a table of your two cars and what the dealer is showing.
Hell, if you ask nicely most casios will give you a basic strategy card to play off.

There's much more to basic strategy than what can be shown on a card. It can involve memorizing tables of percentages that will tell you what is the highest percentage play in every situation.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

There's much more to basic strategy than what can be shown on a card. It can involve memorizing tables of percentages that will tell you what is the highest percentage play in every situation.

This is what I'm saying. Throw card-counting in and you're working through a lot of math in your head while the dealer is staring at you.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

See, I never understood the whole idea of not liking the way someone is playing.
The way other players play has no bearing on wheter or not you win, it's random.

Them making a stupid play could just as easily help you as hurt you.

I've never given a second thought to how anyone else at the table is playing.

actually, how other people at the table play does have an effect on the strategy of the game.
if you are following the basic strategies of blackjack, then if you have a whole table that follows the same basic strategies, it should benefit the whole table.
If someone on that table doesnt follow the strategies, it can have an effect on how the game is played.
at least thats my take on it.
and I dont believe I am alone in that thought process.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by kdogg

That is the thing about blackjack.... people get mad when you don't play the way THEY want you to.

Originally Posted by ken0042

Also be prepared for people to get mad at you. Once I was at a casino and I had 17. Knowing there weren't many low cards that came up, I asked to be hit and was given a 3. Buddy beside me was showing 14 and was mad that I "took his card." He got a 9 and busted. The dealer also busted so in his mind I could have stayed, he could have hit and we would have both won. However I wasn't comfortable staying with just 17.

First time I played blackjack at a casino (the one in West Edmonton Mall) I was sitting at a table of strangers, except for on buddy several seats down. I knew the gist of the game, but not all the little "rules". I had a 16 or something and the dealer had a borderline bust hand. I hit, took a 5 and watched 4 people at the table bust out and the dealer got 19 after a 3 card streak.

Everyone at the table, including my buddy, glared and admonished me for "not playing against the dealer". I havent played blackjack again. Stupid game with uptight people.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by simmer2

The movie was based on the book "Bringing Down The House". Great read.

I'm relying heavily on this revue because I just bought this book.

I'm expecting great things.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Everyone at the table, including my buddy, glared and admonished me for "not playing against the dealer". I havent played blackjack again. Stupid game with uptight people.

Really. Don't these other people need to relax? Isn't it true with a big deck, that the card you take has no significant impact on what the dealer gets?

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Sample00

actually, how other people at the table play does have an effect on the strategy of the game.
if you are following the basic strategies of blackjack, then if you have a whole table that follows the same basic strategies, it should benefit the whole table.
If someone on that table doesnt follow the strategies, it can have an effect on how the game is played.
at least thats my take on it.
and I dont believe I am alone in that thought process.

you aren't alone. My Mom, Dad sister and I used to all play the same table and do pretty well. All it takes is one person to mess it up.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sample00

actually, how other people at the table play does have an effect on the strategy of the game.
if you are following the basic strategies of blackjack, then if you have a whole table that follows the same basic strategies, it should benefit the whole table.
If someone on that table doesnt follow the strategies, it can have an effect on how the game is played.
at least thats my take on it.
and I dont believe I am alone in that thought process.

A few years back i was playing blackjack and i played a card i shouldn't have. The other players just glared at me and picked up their chips and left, leaving me as the only person at the table. I'm going wdf and the dealer explains why they left

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm relying heavily on this revue because I just bought this book.

I'm expecting great things.

The book won't do much for you, it's your own effort that will make or break your ability to consistently count (and win). Counting cards isn't really a complicated concept, especially the easy hi-lo system. Knowing how to count isn't much harder than knowing 1, 2, 3, 4... actually applying it in a casino situation is incredibly difficult unless you put the effort in. I wouldn't be surprised if people who practice for years still can't do it consistently.

Don't get me wrong, the book will show you what to do, but 99.9% of the success of counting rests on effort and practice.

[Philly06Cup]

In my experience, I find a lot of gamblers are very superstitious. Stupidly superstitious. They have lucky charms; lucky seats; lucky rituals. So when someone comes along and plays "wrong," they think it's bad luck, and leave.

As reported, the edge you gain by counting cards is so slim, you need to play A LOT of blackjack -- to the extent of a full-time job -- in order to reap significant gains.

Personally, I would go with Hold-Em Poker for the win. It's the newest thing, which attracts a lot of casual (i.e. skill-less) players, just ready to give their money away. Hence, it makes it very easy to take their money.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Dion

A few years back i was playing blackjack and i played a card i shouldn't have. The other players just glared at me and picked up their chips and left, leaving me as the only person at the table. I'm going wdf and the dealer explains why they left

useful strategy for when you wanna play at the same table as your buddies, start doing ######ed things playing 2$ per hand. The double or stand system seems to work well.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The book won't do much for you, it's your own effort that will make or break your ability to consistently count (and win). Counting cards isn't really a complicated concept, especially the easy hi-lo system. Knowing how to count isn't much harder than knowing 1, 2, 3, 4... actually applying it in a casino situation is incredibly difficult unless you put the effort in. I wouldn't be surprised if people who practice for years still can't do it consistently.

Don't get me wrong, the book will show you what to do, but 99.9% of the success of counting rests on effort and practice.

Sorry, I'm not actually concerned about learning to count cards as I dont really gamble, I'm more interested in the actual story of this.

The fact that this actually happened and it was a prof from MIT I find really interesting.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sorry, I'm not actually concerned about learning to count cards as I dont really gamble, I'm more interested in the actual story of this.

The fact that this actually happened and it was a prof from MIT I find really interesting.

There's a show on TLC all the time about this specific story... you can probably download it, it's an hour.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by troutman

Really. Don't these other people need to relax? Isn't it true with a big deck, that the card you take has no significant impact on what the dealer gets?

I know. Especially on the $2 or $5 minimum bet table. People get all excited because if they play it absolutely right they increase their probability of winning marginally. Idiots.

If you want perfect play from everyone at the table, go to a higher limit table so you dont run into the "non-experts" like me.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

Start with a non-poker game. Say, whist. Play it with my family. In particular, my father. Make sure he is your partner. You will learn. You'll also learn how to keep track of who played what, and what the odds are on what will be played next. If you cannot learn quickly enough, you may be subject to ridicule. Card games are taken as very serious competition in our family with extrodinary bragging rights attatched.

Whist is good. Bridge is the best.

[Svartsengi]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I know. Especially on the $2 or $5 minimum bet table. People get all excited because if they play it absolutely right they increase their probability of winning marginally. Idiots.

If you want perfect play from everyone at the table, go to a higher limit table so you dont run into the "non-experts" like me.

Exactly!. If they are such skilled players bet big at a high limit tables.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I know. Especially on the $2 or $5 minimum bet table. People get all excited because if they play it absolutely right they increase their probability of winning marginally. Idiots.

If you want perfect play from everyone at the table, go to a higher limit table so you dont run into the "non-experts" like me.

Exactly! I had some cabbie go freaking nuts on me last week. I gave him the $2 he lost and told him to STFU! Everyone else at the table just laughed