Prenuptials

[BlackArcher101]

I don't get why some are saying if someone wants a prenup, then you aren't prepared to be married. I have quite a few friends who thought the same and that they would be together forever... now are going through ugly divorces. It's easy to say it now, but you never know how things will pan out.

I see things the other way. If the request for a prenup is enough to make a person not marry another, then how strong was the love anyways? This thread can go back and forth between the people who think there is no love if you want a prenup and others who think there is no love if a prenup is denied.

Frankly, it all depends on the situation if someone should go for one or not. Impossible for someone here to tell if a couple should get one or not.

[simonsays]

I have more problems with the concept of 'popping' the pre-nup then I do with the idea of it. I mean, if you're ready to get married, then you should have a good idea of your future spouses finances. Maybe it's just because we're saving for a place but me and the GF are always talking about expenses, cashflow, RRSPs, etc. But I guess I'm not dating Heather Mills.

I just don't understand how you can ask someone to marry you without knowing how they'd take a question about a pre-nup. Aren't relationships bases on communication?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

As for some of the other comments, I'm not sure I agree with the notion that if you are considering a prenup, you clearly aren't ready to marry.

Things can happen that neither person may necessarily forsee... it's nice to go into a marriage convinced that it will be forever, but the fact remains that s*it happens.

Nothing personal, but judging by the fact that people change their partners like they change their underwear, many do need to reconsider marriage. The success rate of marriage is not that good these days. I tend to think prenups are a sign of what happening with marriage in the world today.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

So, we get life insurance,car insurance, house insurance on the off chance that we could have tragic things happen to us and we need to be covered for those statistical instances. Yet, you have a 50% chance of getting divorced and you think you shouldn't get a prenuptial because its not romantic or whatever you're rationale is. People need to protect their assets and their personal interests on the likelihood that a divorce might occur. It's in everyone's best interest that a future outcome with a 50 percent probability is taking into account. Save the romance for anniversaries, Saturday nights and Valentine's Day. People get married for all the right reasons, but a lifetime is a long time. Heck, 10 years is a long time.

Yep, there's a 50% chance that a marriage might end in divorce. There's many reasons they end that way. Sometimes one or both partners change, sometimes the relationship is faced with obstacles (addictions, adultery, death of a child, etc.) that the couple just can't work their way through. I think a lot of times it's because marriage has come to be viewed as disposable, like so many aspects of our society.

However, entering into a life long partnership with the mind set that it is "likely" to end in divorce, and that romance in a marriage is a secondary consideration that can be assigned to dedicated occassions like "anniversaries, Saturday nights and Valentine's Day" makes a divorce a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I think prenuptials are a part and parcel of that.

I've been married twice, so I certainly conform to that 50% demographic. My first marriage lasted 3 years, and my second has lasted 20 years and counting, and it's getting stronger every year. If I had been more mature and honest with myself prior to my first marriage I would have admitted it wasn't a match made in heaven, and that it had the potential to fail. At no time have I ever had doubts about my second wife. Our relationship was solid and felt "right" from the very beginning. I had and have no doubts that she is the perfect person to be my wife. I guess what I'm saying is that when it's right, you know it, and when it's not right, you also know it. Or at least you should know these things before making a major, life time decision like getting married. Therefore, to me, a prenuptial is an admission that things aren't right, and it becomes part of that self-fulfilling divorce prophecy.

Those are just my opinions based on my experience. Every situation is different, and there is no clear cut right or wrong. But, again, based on my experience, there are some generalizations that I think apply to most situations.

[MelBridgeman]

too lazy to read the whole thread
but that is prob something he should of brought up before he decided to ask her
also that prenups are stupid....

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

So, we get life insurance,car insurance, house insurance on the off chance that we could have tragic things happen to us and we need to be covered for those statistical instances. Yet, you have a 50% chance of getting divorced and you think you shouldn't get a prenuptial because its not romantic or whatever you're rationale is. People need to protect their assets and their personal interests on the likelihood that a divorce might occur. It's in everyone's best interest that a future outcome with a 50 percent probability is taking into account. Save the romance for anniversaries, Saturday nights and Valentine's Day. People get married for all the right reasons, but a lifetime is a long time. Heck, 10 years is a long time.

If you enter a marriage thinking i have a 50% success rate i'll take the odds that your marriage doesn't last.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Dion

If you enter a marriage thinking i have a 50% success rate i'll take the odds that your marriage doesn't last.

Why even think about getting married in the first place?

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

I see things the other way. If the request for a prenup is enough to make a person not marry another, then how strong was the love anyways? This thread can go back and forth between the people who think there is no love if you want a prenup and others who think there is no love if a prenup is denied.

Reiterating this point. Yes, there is a good chance someone is a little offended if they are asked to sign a prenuptial agreement because they expect the marriage to last forever. But why refuse to sign if they are so sure the marriage will last?

[Buff]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

What part of 50% probability don't you get. Everyone gets married on the premise its forever. It will fail for half of us. Ask people who have gotten divorced if they wished they had gotten a prehup. Ask divorce lawyers how happy they are that people don't get prenups.

The percentage of marriages may be close to 50% but the percentage of people who actually get divorced is much less than that. There are a tonne of people who get divorced more than once. My former boss who was divorced 4 times is a prime example.

[MacDougalbry]

For the average person, if you take the typical scenario where the wife gets the house and the kids, I'm not sure a prenup is going to change any of that, i.e. I'm not sure a prenup can have any effect over custody and child support issues because the obligation is to the child (who is not a party to the contract) and not the wife. Regardless, best to bring the topic up with his girlfriend well before proposing to feel her out on the topic, as well as consulting a lawyer in advance to find out if it is even worthwhile.

[RougeUnderoos]

All I know about getting cleaned out in a divorce is what Johnny Carson taught me, but that all happened in California and I'm sure our laws are considerably different than those ones.

If I read correctly, a poster above said roughly "what you bring into it is yours, what you get while you are in it is both of yours". Seems fair enough to me. It is supposed to be a team effort after all.

If he's a high-roller and he knows his Missus won't be contributing anything financially in the marriage then that's what he signed up for and should be willing to accept it and the consequences to his bank account if it doesn't work out.

The wealthiest people I know/have known always had the craziest families... step-moms and dads x 3, step-brothers, half-sisters 15 years or more apart, siblings they don't know, screwed secretaries, banishments to boarding schools, drunken trophy wives, more divorces, fights, wrecked cars, insane jealousy. I don't know if there were ever any pre-nups involved, but dad always paid for all that.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

Why even think about getting married in the first place?

It's the mindset of some people that i'm talking about. Divorce is so readily available that some couples approach marriage like they are leasing a car. If things get rough we'll trade ourselves in for someone else they say. They don't enter the marriage with the mindset of it's not going to fail, instead it's what can i do mitigate the damage when it does happen. It becomes like a self full filling prophecy.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Azure

Why even think about getting married in the first place?

Because when it works it's a beautiful thing.

[SebC]

Not going to get into the whole are prenups good/bad debate, but here's the solution for HelloHockeyFans's buddy. He needs to get his girlfriend to think that the pre-nup was her idea!

[Buzzard]

Once again I'm using my husbands account. I can't help it, I'm addicted to the forum. As a woman I would have no problem signing a pre-nup. It's a contract, just like marriage is. The divorce rate is much higher as the number of marriages you have goes up. I think being ready to marry has nothing to do it. It's a wise and educated decision to protect certain assets you want to keep in case you do divorce. Noone goes into marriage thinking they may get divorced, but you have to be realistic, not romantic when it comes to finances. I think it would be irresponsible in this day and age not to have a pre-nup. Pre-nups are not just about what you don't get in the case of divorce, they also protect you and state what you do get in case of divorce. If I was a guy and a girl refused to sign a pre-nup I wouldn't marry her. If she is offended by a pre-nup then she doesn't have the financial maturity to deal with other issues once married.

[The Goon]

It's amazing that we're in 2008 and people would think of getting married without some financial contract in place.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Once again I'm using my husbands account. I can't help it, I'm addicted to the forum. As a woman I would have no problem signing a pre-nup. It's a contract, just like marriage is. The divorce rate is much higher as the number of marriages you have goes up. I think being ready to marry has nothing to do it. It's a wise and educated decision to protect certain assets you want to keep in case you do divorce. Noone goes into marriage thinking they may get divorced, but you have to be realistic, not romantic when it comes to finances. I think it would be irresponsible in this day and age not to have a pre-nup. Pre-nups are not just about what you don't get in the case of divorce, they also protect you and state what you do get in case of divorce. If I was a guy and a girl refused to sign a pre-nup I wouldn't marry her. If she is offended by a pre-nup then she doesn't have the financial maturity to deal with other issues once married.

Yeah, CP'll do that.

I agree with your post, the pre-nup is so important in today's society. I see so many people in my line of work who are paying through the nose for previous marriages.

Originally Posted by The Goon

It's amazing that we're in 2008 and people would think of getting married without some financial contract in place.

Agreed.

For the Original Poster:

Slip her some Rohypnol and get her to sign it then. I'm sure that will stand up in court.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Dion

If you enter a marriage thinking i have a 50% success rate i'll take the odds that your marriage doesn't last.

I love how someone posts a random percentage and everyone assumes it to be a factual statistic.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Because when it works it's a beautiful thing.

Best point in this whole thread!!

[flamesfever]

I think you have to take each case on its own merit. There are so many factors to consider like age, relative wealth, stability of the partners, etc.

I tend to agree with those who are against prenups for younger couples where the wealth difference is not exceedingly great in comparison with the earning potential over a lifetime.

However, where a wealthy widow or widower gets married to a much younger person, and the children of the older person are dependent on their inheritance for their well being, a prenup would be mandatory in my view.

I wonder how all those against prenups would feel if wealthy old Dad married a twenty year old?