Student Faces Expulsion for Facebook Study Group

[MelBridgeman]

alas, that sucks for you unikids out there...i completed the CT program at SAIT in the late 90's first class to be forced to buy (lease) laptops from SAIT....there was no shortage of ICQ cheating that year...kinda slipped the brasses minds when implementing the TEP program...and of coure all it took was some idiot to forget to turn his sound off....

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

alas, that sucks for you unikids out there...i completed the CT program at SAIT in the late 90's first class to be forced to buy (lease) laptops from SAIT....there was no shortage of ICQ cheating that year...kinda slipped the brasses minds when implementing the TEP program...and of coure all it took was some idiot to forget to turn his sound off....

ICQ wouldn't be the only one saying "Uh oh!"

[Fobby]

It's engineering.... Posting just the answer would only get you 10% of the mark... seriously... if working together on an individual assignment is cheating, then hell.. i would have failed most of my assignments in university.

Individual assignments to me means you have to submit your own copy of the answer... not "lock yourself in a room so you can't talk to anyone while you come up with the answer"

[arloiginla]

Wow...at first when I saw this I thought "wow the University is really over the top" since study groups happen all the time. But if the guy posts his description as "post your solutions here" then that was his fault. What an idiot.

Of course that still doesn't stop the other millions of people who use facebook to cheat - ie) if people think that is the first and only guy to attempt this they are just stupid.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Fobby

It's engineering.... Posting just the answer would only get you 10% of the mark... seriously... if working together on an individual assignment is cheating, then hell.. i would have failed most of my assignments in university.

Individual assignments to me means you have to submit your own copy of the answer... not "lock yourself in a room so you can't talk to anyone while you come up with the answer"

But the syllabus clearly states its supposed to be an "individual assignment". I mean, yes you can unofficially discuss groups on the assignment, but each person is still "supposed" to do the actual assignment by themselves. Profs aren't stupid. They know what goes on, and they usually turn a blind eye to it because its all "unofficial" collaboration, and usually its hard to catch unless its blatant plagerism. The fact that the guy used a public medium to share answers is like he's taunting the prof to catch him. Bottom line, he "officially" cheated by doing the Facebook group, and thus should be expelled.

[RougeUnderoos]

What about the other members of the group? Did they get the boot or an F?

If a bunch of people get together and cheat over the phone would they just kick out the guy with the phone numbers?

[disco_inferno]

Originally Posted by tkflames

We want blood!!! Throw him out!!! Actually though, I have no respect for that. Its so annoying to actually do a homework assignment in university that takes 6 hours or more only to find out that the prof "can't determine who cheated" and therefor everybody gets a zero or its omitted. Especially in an academic institution, do your own talk to others about it but you don't have to do assignments together. ( I mean what are you going to do in industry? Ask the guy in the next cubicle to do the work for you?)

what do you take in school? i dont think its engineering, and if it is, you probably have a 4.0 and a fun level of about zero. dont get me wrong, i do alot of homework, alot, alot of homework, but without some team efforts on some stuff, there is no way i would get it all done right or on-time. as for in the work place, every place ive worked at (in an engineering field) has been team oriented, asking questions and talking stuff through is how you can get the best of multiple opinions, taking only your own thoughts into account can lead to serious biases in results, reports, and other work you do, and you might miss something obvious. i think asking "post solutions here" is dumb, and he deserves what he got (definitely not subtle at all), but banning teamwork on assignments, tutorials, and other stuff like that benefits no one.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by disco_inferno

what do you take in school? i dont think its engineering, and if it is, you probably have a 4.0 and a fun level of about zero. dont get me wrong, i do alot of homework, alot, alot of homework, but without some team efforts on some stuff, there is no way i would get it all done right or on-time. as for in the work place, every place ive worked at (in an engineering field) has been team oriented, asking questions and talking stuff through is how you can get the best of multiple opinions, taking only your own thoughts into account can lead to serious biases in results, reports, and other work you do, and you might miss something obvious. i think asking "post solutions here" is dumb, and he deserves what he got (definitely not subtle at all), but banning teamwork on assignments, tutorials, and other stuff like that benefits no one.

While I agree with everything you said except that you do alot of homework (you probably do "a lot" of homework ), the assignment specifically asked them to work on it alone. I have no idea if this was an isolated incident or if this was strongly encouraged.

Also, in "real life" you never have closed book exams. You don't get problems and are told by your employer "sorry you can't look it up" but yet closed book exams are generally the norm in most faculties because this is the best way profs know how to assess the students. The professor wanted an individual effort so he could best assess the students' understanding of the material. He decided to disobey the instruction and deserves the punishment he gets.

[disco_inferno]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

While I agree with everything you said except that you do alot of homework (you probably do "a lot" of homework ), the assignment specifically asked them to work on it alone. I have no idea if this was an isolated incident or if this was strongly encouraged.

im an engineer, not an arts student.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by ernie

As a TA I reported a student for plagiarism to the prof of the course. Student got kicked out of university.

The offence? The moron found an old lab and copied it out word for word. Problem is he probably should have checked the name on the lab he used...it was mine from when I took the course!

Idiot. He had other offences so that he essentially got himself kicked out of university.

I am a TA right now, and let's just say that if someone did that to my work, I would have half the blame. How did this student get your old work... did they steal it from you?

[Johnny 99]

Originally Posted by ernie

As a TA I reported a student for plagiarism to the prof of the course. Student got kicked out of university.

The offence? The moron found an old lab and copied it out word for word. Problem is he probably should have checked the name on the lab he used...it was mine from when I took the course!

Idiot. He had other offences so that he essentially got himself kicked out of university.

Does it make you feel big to brag that you got someone kicked out of university? When I went to school about 80% of what I turned in was other student's work - I prided myself on getting all the assignments turned in no matter how heavy the workload. Now that I'm in the real world, I find it to be exactly the same, as most of what I do is not without great input from my co-workers.

[icarus]

The university should really be asking whether the students learned about chemistry or did not. The point is to learn the stuff. However it is done shouldn't matter a whole lot.

Professors can be so narrow-minded at times. "You must work independently at all costs!" But what if the students learn things better as a group? Isn't that the point?

I never would have learned organic chemistry if my friends and I didn't figure out stuff together.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

Does it make you feel big to brag that you got someone kicked out of university? When I went to school about 80% of what I turned in was other student's work - I prided myself on getting all the assignments turned in no matter how heavy the workload. Now that I'm in the real world, I find it to be exactly the same, as most of what I do is not without great input from my co-workers.

He should feel proud of what he did. When I went to university, I worked on my assignments and projects without plagiarizing and cheating. I applaud people who go after cheaters. I feel bigger knowing one less dishonest person is beating the system.

[corporatejay]

Huge difference between cheating and using "roadmaps".

Having other people's work to use as a guideline is totally different than plagarizing.

[Canada 02]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...sonalTech/home

Chris Avenir, the Ryerson University student whose involvement in a Facebook study group has set off an international debate about the difference between online collaboration and old-fashion cheating, has won a partial victory before a faculty committee and will not face expulsion.

edit for a better story link

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

A first-year computer engineering student at Ryerson University will not be expelled for running a study group on the popular social networking website Facebook.
The Toronto university's faculty appeal hearing ruled Tuesday that 18-year-old Chris Avenir did not commit academic misconduct for helping run the online group.
Avenir had also been charged with 146 counts of academic misconduct for each classmate who used the website.
However, the student will receive a 0 per cent on the assignments that the students discussed on Facebook, which could total 20 per cent of his final mark in one particular chemistry course.
The appeal committee also ruled a "DN" (disciplinary notice) will appear on the teen's transcript and he will have to attend an academic integrity tutorial.

[HotHotHeat]

lol, academic integrity tutorial?

Some profs have forgotten university is about getting the grades, not obeying rules set forth by asshats with their heads up their bums. Outright cheating is wrong, but for god sakes, if you're going to give a take home exam, don't expect students to listen to you when you say 'don't talk to each other!'.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

I am a TA right now, and let's just say that if someone did that to my work, I would have half the blame. How did this student get your old work... did they steal it from you?

To tell you the truth I'm not sure how he got a hold of my lab. My guess is that I probably left it in the student club for the department and somebody grabbed it and photocopied it and it continued to kick around for a couple years until I was a grad student. I used to leave my books and what not in the club and just take my notebook to lectures. To this day I still have the original lab so that's the only thing I can figure.

After this I warned all my students through my grad career not to use any old labs they may stumble upon at various clubs or through friends etc.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Johnny 99

Does it make you feel big to brag that you got someone kicked out of university? When I went to school about 80% of what I turned in was other student's work - I prided myself on getting all the assignments turned in no matter how heavy the workload. Now that I'm in the real world, I find it to be exactly the same, as most of what I do is not without great input from my co-workers.

Did I say anything about feeling big about getting him kicked out. And for the record I didn't get him kicked out. the prof of the course did and well really the kid got himself kicked out.

I believe I've told the extended story in a similar thread. but basically if you want the long version here is what happened:

I cut the kid a break when i probably shouldn't have done so. He had a heavy course load, was an athlete with demanding schedule and this was a small lab. I gave him a zero and told him he knew why.

He went to the prof and complained I had a bias against him and undeservedly gave him a zero. The prof called me into a meeting with the student to confront me about my bias (the prof wasn't a fan of mine from undergrad). I went to that meeting with my original lab in hand and gave it ot the prof and said this is why he got a zero. At that point the prof immediately kicked the student out of the course and began the procedures to kick him out of school. In the course of those proceedings investigation other academic misconducts came to light and it was a foregone conclusion his university career was done.

He did it to himself. To this day I think I was being overly nice to him by only giving the zero and a warning. I should have reported it immediately and did so on a couple other occassions though those students only received zeroes and warnings in the end (they copied from each other but overall were very good independent students. They just got stuck and had a lapse in judgement. Not repeated lapses in judgement) Though I must say after this event the prof and I got along famously and he sat on my grad committee.

[Fobby]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

university is about getting the grades.

Worse case of that is I have witness cheating in an Ethics exam... now come on!

[icarus]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

lol, academic integrity tutorial?

I wonder if there is a Facebook study group for that?