Alberta Leadership Debate

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Funny, I didn't see it that way.

I saw that the debate reinforced how badly Alberta needs a change in government and I would think many voters would have a more difficult time than ever voting PC.

It definitely reinforced the need for change, that's for sure. This debate also exposed how limited the choices are, and how hapless the sitting government really is.

However, if a disenchanted PC (like me) watched that debate on TV, heard Taft wax about regulation, controls, funding for this, that, and the other thing (but at least he said healthcare funding is where it should be), you realized the legitimate alternative is not as centrist as one would hope. The need for change is huge, but giving the keys to the Taft liberals might be even more costly.

[peter12]

I also get a little bit concerned when I hear from all the candidates, except Hinman, that the O&G royalty money is the solution to all of our problems. It just shows a definite lack of understanding and vision for the future of our province.

We have institutional problems that can never be fixed by throwing cash at it. We have environmental problems that require a distinct shift in policy making in this province.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by peter12

I also get a little bit concerned when I hear from all the candidates, except Hinman, that the O&G royalty money is the solution to all of our problems. It just shows a definite lack of understanding and vision for the future of our province.

We have institutional problems that can never be fixed by throwing cash at it. We have environmental problems that require a distinct shift in policy making in this province.

Yeah, its a little concerning when the "major parties" think the solution of all their problems is to "shake the money tree," with absolutely zero understanding of the ramifications that being an oilpatch aggressor has on the province and its global perception.

Mason can cite "Alaskan-style royalties" till the cows come home... what he neglects to mention is how minimal the taxation is there and how, unlike Alberta, inexpensive to the operator the regulatory system is. There isn't another $4 billion to just take.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Funny, I didn't see it that way.

I saw that the debate reinforced how badly Alberta needs a change in government and I would think many voters would have a more difficult time than ever voting PC.

Well ultimatelty the reason why we're even voting now as opposed to later is because Stelmach read the tea-leaves and realized that the PC ship in its current form is a sinking ship. He feels that he might as well cash in on its residual support now, which will probably still give him a slight majority and spend the next 5 years enjoying power. The reason why he'll still get a majority is that the Liberals and NDP still feature the same hapless leadership that lost them elections in the past and the Wildrose Alliance hasn't had enough time to mature and get a leader or candidates that aren't far too young and inexperienced to vote for or too religiously based. Had the Alliance been given another year to get their affairs in order they could have vote-split with the PCs and have the Libs come up the middle.

Should it play out this way the Liberals will turf Taft and either grab on to Bronconnier or Mandel as their new leader and grab power away from the PCs with a slate of more centrist candidates that speak more to the Urban fiscal conservative but socially liberal voters in the next election (Which will feature more urban ridings due to the 2006 census being used to decide boundaries instead of the 2001 census).

[jolinar of malkshor]

Maybe now is a good time for another cp poll.

[North East Goon]

I am going to vote NDP for the first time in my life.

[jolinar of malkshor]

I want to vote Wildrose Alliance but I don't really like the candidate in my riding. One thing that is really strange for me is that the Liberal, WRA and PC candidates in my riding are all middle aged men who have never been married and no kids. Doesn't that seem strange and do they really represent the direction of the province with regards to education and family concerns?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Maybe now is a good time for another cp poll.

Mods, can yout another poll on this thread?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Here is what I would like to see in a platform.

Healthcare:

Double the classroom spaces for all healthcare professions in high demand.
*
Provide free education to all healthcare professions in high demand with a requirement to work in Alberta for 10 years. For each year not worked in Alberta the student must pay back 10% of there educational costs.
*
Provide a provincial income tax exemption to all healthcare professions in high demand for the first 10 years of service in Alberta.
*
Eliminate healthcare premiums.
*
Provide tax incentives for all research, development and treament facilities for the healthcare field. Much like the Oil and Gas sector.
*
Establish a goal to become the worl leader in Cancer research, treatment and drug development.
*
Create a secure Alberta Healthcare Card with bio data and picture to reduce fraud.

Education:

Provide Interest free loans to students that will be working in Alberta.
*
Create a student loan payback system based on annual salary not total debt. (Must pay back the full loan)
*
Create more academic spaces all around.
*
Give first priority to Alberta and Canadian students over international students.
*
Reduce class sizes for primary and secondary education to 12-15 students per class.
*

Childcare

Increase childcare spaces for those that wish to use it.
*
Establish a minimum salary for childcare workers.
*
Match the federal childcare payment to parents, tax free.
*
Allow income splitting for families.

Taxes

Maintain the current tax rate.
*
Increase the provincial tax exemption to $20,000 increasing annually as per inflation.
*
Mandate that all fuel tax collect be used for transporation infrastructure and tax incentives for greener transportation.
*
Provide greater tax incentives for carbon capture technology and the development of greener tech.
*
Provide tax incentives for healthier life choices.

Other

Withdraw from the CPP and create a Alberta Pension Plan
*
Start construction of highspeed rail line between Calgary and Edmonton as soon as economically possible.
*
Withdraw the services of the RCMP for provincial police and mandate the Alberta Sheriffs to fulfill that duty.

[MacDougalbry]

Wow... that would put you further to the left than the NDP.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Here is what I would like to see in a platform.


Other

Withdraw from the CPP and create a Alberta Pension Plan
*
Start construction of highspeed rail line between Calgary and Edmonton as soon as economically possible.
*
Withdraw the services of the RCMP for provincial police and mandate the Alberta Sheriffs to fulfill that duty.

1) That has white elephant written all over it

2) This is already slowly happening

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

1) That has white elephant written all over it

2) This is already slowly happening

WAAYYY to slow.


What do you mean by number 1?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MacDougalbry

Wow... that would put you further to the left than the NDP.

??How so??

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

What do you mean by number 1?

That the cost of such a rail link would not be justified by its use or revenue.

And, you forgot one other point on your platform:

*Bankrupt the province rapidly

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That the cost of such a rail link would not be justified by its use or revenue.

And, you forgot one other point on your platform:

*Bankrupt the province rapidly

Good God.

Please tell me exactly what point there will bankrupt the province?

This is why we need a change in government. The status quo is what is going to bankrupt the government.

Continuing to throw money at a broken healthcare system is whats going to bankrupt the province.

Failing to meet skilled worker shortages will bankrupt the province.

QE2 is due for a huge upgrade/expansion. Building a train would offset that requirement for quite a few years not to mention reduce annual maintance costs. Will it cost a lot of money? Sure will but it can be done propertly.

But hey, lets just keep chugging along doing the same old thing.

[Resolute 14]

I'm impressed at how you made all of those assumptions about my opinion on things from a four word statement.

But really, please explain to me how you plan to pay for all of that while maintaining the current tax rate AND eliminating health care premiums?

Especially when you start to consider the derivative costs of what little of your platform you've revealed:

*Doubling classroom spaces requires more teachers and more support staff at schools, not to mention more schools themselves.
*How many other "high demand" workers are going to demand the same free educations and tax-free status? Sucks to be me, however, since I made the mistake of getting into a different industry, therefore I'm stuck paying for it.
*More classroom spaces and smaller classroom sizes again equals massive increases in staffing and infrastructure costs.

Everything you propose there costs, but you've suggested no means of paying for it. Change is easy when you are spending other people's money.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I'm impressed at how you made all of those assumptions about my opinion on things from a four word statement.

Resolute, I made no assumptions of any of your remarks; I simply stated that the current system would be what bankrupt the province.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

But really, please explain to me how you plan to pay for all of that while maintaining the current tax rate AND eliminating health care premiums?

This year alone is a 4 billion surplus. Also I am sure there are areas that spending can be reduced. Priority right now is health care and education as far as I am concerned. By investing in education now we save billions and make billions in the future by having a higher skilled labour force (more taxes because of higher incomes) less costs for business because they dont have to look out of province/country for labour.

Not to mention. how much do you think is spent on paying overtime, sick leave, stress leave because of the current system. Instead of paying all that money in inefficiencies, that money could be spend training new people to prevent those costs from happening.

As for the healthcare premiums, they atleast need to be adjusted so that it is a progressive tax not a regressive one.

*Doubling classroom spaces requires more teachers and more support staff at schools, not to mention more schools themselves.

Yes that is right it will cost more, but this is an investment and will save money in the long run. There are a lot of empty schools out there right now that can be utilized. Allow more chartered schools, they run more efficient. There are many ways to achieve this.

*How many other "high demand" workers are going to demand the same free educations and tax-free status? Sucks to be me, however, since I made the mistake of getting into a different industry, therefore I'm stuck paying for it.

Your not paying for anything, you are benifiting from it. There will be a doctor there for you when you need it. You wont be stuck in the hallway of a hospital because there are no nurses and rooms. Not to mention, these costs will eventually be recovered when these people start paying taxes.

*More classroom spaces and smaller classroom sizes again equals massive increases in staffing and infrastructure costs.

Large class room sizes, over worked teachers and uneducated children will result in massive costs to staffing and future efficency levels.

Everything you propose there costs, but you've suggested no means of paying for it. Change is easy when you are spending other people's money.

It's my money just as much as yours and like I explained, the way the economy is now, now is the time. Most of these costs will pay for themselves in the future.

[MacDougalbry]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

??How so??

I think in your Education platform alone you would double the education budget. Frankly, your education platform sounds like something written by the teacher's union, which is a huge component in the NDP organization. In addition to doubling the number of teachers, you'd need to double the number of schools. Frankly, just not possible... In this economy, there is a scarcity of construction capacity; you have to prioritize infrastructure spending and, currently, hospitals and transportation are number one.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Withdraw from the CPP and create a Alberta Pension Plan
*
Start construction of highspeed rail line between Calgary and Edmonton as soon as economically possible.
*
Withdraw the services of the RCMP for provincial police and mandate the Alberta Sheriffs to fulfill that duty.

Why is the right so obsessed about their own police force? I think most people have respect for the RCMP which to me is a major issue. I doubt your average Alberta would even know who they are. How would Alberta staff such a force with able bodied individuals in our labor shortage?

Rail line? Economics please. I dare you to tell the oil company dudes (and I work in a place that epitomizes this) who go to the field to that they should ditch their F350 for a train to Edmonton, followed by a rental car to whereever. That'll be a UofA commuter train back for students.

If your counting on your CPP (or some sort of public pension plan) to ride out your retirement plan - good luck. Whether it's branded as APP or CPP - same crap, different pile. Look at the Heritage Fund as to how pathetic the AB govt's investment record has been. (now if you had Ontario Teachers Plan run the thing....)

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Your not paying for anything, you are benifiting from it. There will be a doctor there for you when you need it. You wont be stuck in the hallway of a hospital because there are no nurses and rooms. Not to mention, these costs will eventually be recovered when these people start paying taxes.

I've been in the hospital in the last couple years. In Calgary, Drayton Valley and in Wetaskiwin. A few of my best friends have been in hospital recently. My sister has, my grandmother has, and my aunt has. And I'll tell you this: the "there isn't a doctor or bed when you need it" argument is crap. The system is not perfect, no doubt, and for non-emergency type visits, there most certainly are problems. But when it comes to emergencies, people remember the horror stories and are led into believing that the entire system is on life support itself.

So please, argue that the system needs fixing. Argue that it needs reform. Argue that it could be better. But don't argue from a basis of fear. I'm not buying it.

And no, those costs will not be recovered when the nurses and doctors start paying taxes. They will never be recovered, unless you intend to charge them back taxes.

I'm well aware of the surplus, but I'll tell you, your plan would eat it away rapidly. Canceling the health care premiums (which I do agree with) will wipe out $1 billion alone.

And based on what little of your platform you've revealed, I fear to think of what you would do wrt affordable housing, infrastructure, and other aspects of our society that are in need of a look.

I'm not saying your goals are bad, and I'm not saying I disagree with them. From an idealistic point of view, your suggestions are great. But they will cost money. A ton of it. Everything has a cost, and increasing these services to the level you propose would cost a lot. I really don't see any way you could implement this while instituting massive tax cuts at the same time.