Singh case tests border agency's strength

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I was responding to a comment that wasn't yours. If you'd like to direct your arguments to mine, I'll take them.

I am responding to the comment that you made to another comment that I believe has no relavance and does not make any sense. Can I not do that?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

This has nothing to do with being Canadian.



Yes it is worth a big fight. If you don't follow through with the consequences then you might aswell not have any consequences. And there wasn't good reasons for it otherwise the IRB would have accepted his claim as a refuge. Canada accepts about 50% of all refugees that make a claim, so he must not have had a really good claim.



Fine, no one is arguing that people want to make there life better and do what it takes to make it better. But if you come to Canada under false pretences and break the law at the same time then you must suffer the consequences.



Yes, he did abuse the system. Instead of coming to Canada the right way, like most people do, he decided to jump the line. How do you explain to the actual refugee sitting in a refugee camp with absolutly nothing "sorry little johnny, we were going to take you as a conventional refugee but because Mr. Singh decided that he was more of a refuge than you, and that he had the ability to buy a fake passport and a plane ticket to Canada, we just can't accept you this year because we have already spend close to half a million dollars on his fraudulent claim. If you are still alive next year johnny we may look at your case again as long as another Mr. Singh doesn't try to pull the same Sh*t.

You know what, I agree with everything you say.

However we still don't know why he came here. I guess if he won't tell us, we gotta get rid of him. Maybe he's scared to tell us. Maybe he really is here under false circumstances.

I don't know. And all I've really said is, I don't know. I can't pass judgement (and deport him) without knowing more.

Whether he had money or not doesn't matter if he was in need. I'd jump the line to if I was truly in need and I could. Sounds cruel, but I know you would to. I'm sure both of us would help our neighbor and our refugee, but we'd expect that same help if we needed it. And if we couldn't get it, we'd go for the brass ring anyway. Anyone would.

I would have to be seriously in need though, I wouldn't take it away from others for kicks.

So I don't know what he was thinking. I need more info which is what I said from the start. Given the info I do have, it seems heavy handed.

One poor child from wherever is NOT getting denied because of this clown. If you think that you are fooling yourself.

[hockeycop]

Originally Posted by Daradon

One poor child from wherever is NOT getting denied because of this clown. If you think that you are fooling yourself.

Canada has a budget for the intake of refugees. Everytime someone enters an illegal claim, it takes away money that would be better spent on a legitimate claim.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by hockeycop

Canada has a budget for the intake of refugees. Everytime someone enters an illegal claim, it takes away money that would be better spent on a legitimate claim.

I understand that math (as most people do) but you must know government does not work like that. There is always a little bit more to go around.

They go by groups. You think the spilt up a community or family? Sorry, you can come and you can come, but your sister can't. She's gotta stay here and get raped.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Whether he had money or not doesn't matter if he was in need. I'd jump the line to if I was truly in need and I could. Sounds cruel, but I know you would to. I'm sure both of us would help our neighbor and our refugee, but we'd expect that same help if we needed it. And if we couldn't get it, we'd go for the brass ring anyway. Anyone would.

Like I said, I agree that people are going to do what they think is best for them. However, they also need to live with the consequences of their actions. I am sure he realized that if he entered another country illegally he may be sent back to where he came from, and it has happened. So he needs to live with the consequences. And like I said before if other people feel so strongly about his medical condition, they are free to pay for any expenses he may have in India.

One poor child from wherever is NOT getting denied because of this clown. If you think that you are fooling yourself.

Think again my friend. We are not talking about only one Mr. Singh here. We are talking about thousands of failed refugee claimants that put a huge strain on the refugee system that takes away resources and manpower from the program thus taking away the ability to accept government sponsored refugees. So you might want to re-think that one.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I am responding to the comment that you made to another comment that I believe has no relavance and does not make any sense. Can I not do that?

Ok, he was saying kick him out over other Canadians. I was responding.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Like I said, I agree that people are going to do what they think is best for them. However, they also need to live with the consequences of their actions. I am sure he realized that if he entered another country illegally he may be sent back to where he came from, and it has happened. So he needs to live with the consequences. And like I said before if other people feel so strongly about his medical condition, they are free to pay for any expenses he may have in India.


Think again my friend. We are not talking about only one Mr. Singh here. We are talking about thousands of failed refugee claimants that put a huge strain on the refugee system that takes away resources and manpower from the program thus taking away the ability to accept government sponsored refugees. So you might want to re-think that one.

The truth about the refugee system is that you will never get away from claims like this. And as the world population continues unabated it's only going to get worse. Putting in a more strict system will literally have to come to walls in a few years.

Keeping or denying one guy is not going to make a difference.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by hockeycop

Canada has a budget for the intake of refugees. Everytime someone enters an illegal claim, it takes away money that would be better spent on a legitimate claim.

But the money spent on kicking out an 'illegitamate' claim trumps all of those.

So I guess now because of action taken against Mr. Singh we know have less money for 5 refugees?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Daradon

The truth about the refugee system is that you will never get away from claims like this. And as the world population continues unabated it's only going to get worse. Putting in a more strict system will literally have to come to walls in a few years.

Keeping or denying one guy is not going to make a difference.

The entire system is about 1 guy. You don't do it to one you might aswell not do it to anyone. That is why we need to maintain a strong system. The refugee system is totally f***ed in Canada. If this guy was processed in 6 months or less like it should have been, this would not be an issue and it wouldn't be an issue for many other cases.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The entire system is about 1 guy. You don't do it to one you might aswell not do it to anyone. That is why we need to maintain a strong system. The refugee system is totally f***ed in Canada. If this guy was processed in 6 months or less like it should have been, this would not be an issue and it wouldn't be an issue for many other cases.

You don't think other western governments don't go through this? Look at the US? As much as I like to rip on them they got us beat on this one. Sure some talk of a wall, but they take percentile wise way moe illegal immigrants than we do.

This is not an easy problem with easy solutions. This is a world problem. If you wanna deal with it like we can write some laws and kick some people out go ahead. But it's shortsighted and ultimatly destructive.

[fredr123]

Yet another case where only certain information is made available to the public.

Despite my searches, I was unable to find any of the actual reasons for the decision to deny Mr. Singh refugee status. From what I read, the government (as usual) has declined or is unable to comment on what happened in those hearings.

The public is therefore left with only one side of the story. Maybe if all the information relative to the case were made available publicly, the public wouldn't tolerate continued interference with the removal.

[simonsays]

Here's what I could turn up on why he's here & why he's being deported. Not sure how reputable a news source Sekhon.ca is however.

It’s been a long battle for Singh, who was one of seven children – four boys and three girls. His family, like many in the small Punjab village, was poor.

Singh liked school, but his family could not afford a full education. He joined the army. It paid more than a labourer’s job, and at over six feet tall and strong, he was an ideal candidate.

During those years, he married Gian, a girl from a nearby village. It was an arranged marriage and he had never met his bride before their wedding day, which was a simple affair.

When he left the army and returned to his wife and family, he got a job on a local farm, earning a dollar a day.

Gian died in 1992 after a sudden fever. Singh was desperate. He was a single father to three girls and one boy. He was barely able to put food on the table. When he heard about a fake passport to get to Canada, Singh begged and borrowed the money to get it. It took him years to get the $1,000. The agent who sold him the fraudulent documents told him to lie and say he was fleeing political persecution and seek asylum.

Singh said goodbye to his children and promised to send money.
When he arrived in Montreal in 2003, he declared the documents, applied for asylum and went on the run – first Montreal, then Vancouver and later to Surrey. Over the next three years, every application Singh made to stay in Canada was rejected. He missed each immigration appointment because he knew he would be deported.

He was working in Surrey as a painter when he was felled by a brain aneurysm in August 2006. One morning, he got out of bed and collapsed. Weeks later he woke up in a Vancouver hospital. He was paralyzed from below the waist and had limited movement in his upper body. He could not wash, feed or dress himself. He was 48 years old.

http://www.sekhon.ca/content/view/260/88889197/

[CaptainCrunch]

Send him home on the next plane, and start rejecting people at the airport who don't have legitimate paperwork.

When refugee's arrive we should have settlement facilities(feed them and clothes them) where they have to stay until we verify their paperwork, their connections in Canada, that they aren't criminals or wanted by their own countries for violent crimes.

If they fail any of these, its home they go, that day, no appeals process.

I'm sorry that Singh had health issues, but I'm stuck on the fact that he lied to get into Canada, and then avoided meeting with immigration and basically was fraudulent since he arrived on day one.

If the Sikh community is so concerned about him, they can raise some money for him to take home, or make sure that he's taken care of back home.

[Azure]

Yeah, the Sikh community could raise money, and help him while he is at home.

No excuses....and no exceptions.

[Dan02]

I have no problem letting him stay, assuming there is someone who wants to foot his medical bills, past, present and future. Otherwise back he goes. Unfortunate yes but the line has to be drawn somewhere. This guy clearly does not belong here and we should not be paying for his care.

I understand we can't just get rid of everyone from a foreign country who gets sick in Canada, but we should only be covering their bills on a emergency basis til they are well enough to travel back to their country.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Pop a cap in his behind so that it can be a lesson to others who want to cheat the system and milk the Canadian health care system.