Roger Clemens files suit...

[moon]

Originally Posted by Dion

lol Then he goes on a tirade saying the Hall of Fame means squat to him , as well all the records he has achieved. That's not why i play the game he added. Thought he was going to burst a blood vessel.

At the end he stormed off the podium.

I could believe him here. I am not so sure that the HOF or awards mean as much to him as the millions of dollars he makes does. I think he would play for money over winning. He has shown he was willing to do it in the past.

[habernac]

there was a running joke for awhile that Clemens would have a baseball cap with a dollar sign on it when he went to the hall of fame, I don't think that's too far fetched.

Another good article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...1&sportCat=mlb

[JohnnyFlame]

Looked like a carbon copy of every steroid user to me. The denials coming faster and faster. How can they say that about me and attacking the process or the accuser etc. The standard playing the game moves without the slightest indication of sincerity.

In the end won't matter what he does or says -- a huge number of people won't listen to anything he says nor IMO should they. Cheating is the norm and denial rather than telling the truth the norm as well.

Much more amazing are those who actually admit they took the roids!!!

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Might be plausable if the feds had been trying to nail the Rocket for a while, aside from idle chatter about Roger's crazy workouts which make normal atheletes throw up, but there was nothing before the Mitchell Report about him. I think you're really reaching Jiri.

Look I'm not saying he did it or didn't do it. I'm not a Clemons fan nor do I hate him. I have no real strong feelings either way.

But there NEEDS to be proof.

This whole thing reeks of the McCarthy hearings. People being asked to name names and once those names are out there the public deems them to be guilty in the absence of any hard proof.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well on the score there was some discussion of the Feds saying to the guy
The truth is x
We need you to tell us the truth.
So what do you have to say.

If they implied they knew Clemons was a user - and then told the guy they needed the truth - then that's how he could have been pressured into teling them what they wanted to hear. Wouldn't be the first time.

This is true, which brings me to a third possible option - they're both lying.

Perhaps Clemens is/was a user but McNamee never saw any concrete proof of it and really did inject him with B12. Maybe McNamee didn't think Clemens would challenge his statement because he knew he was guilty in some way.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Look I'm not saying he did it or didn't do it. I'm not a Clemons fan nor do I hate him. I have no real strong feelings either way.

But there NEEDS to be proof.

This whole thing reeks of the McCarthy hearings. People being asked to name names and once those names are out there the public deems them to be guilty in the absence of any hard proof.

Very good post. I agree fully. For me I'm 90% certain that Roger Clemens did steroids, however until that remaining 10% is certain (requires actual proof in the form of syringes, reciepts, other testimony from other trainers/organizations, etc.) I won't pass any final judgement on Clemens or anyone else for that matter.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

But there NEEDS to be proof.

McNamee turns over the smoking syringes:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1

His side turned over gauze pads and syringes they said had Clemens' blood to IRS Special Agent Jeff Novitzky in early January, a person familiar with the evidence said, speaking on condition of anonymity because McNamee's lawyers did not want to publicly discuss details. The syringes were used to inject Clemens with steroids and human growth hormone, the person said. A second person, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the evidence was from 2000 and 2001.

Who will believe Fraudger now?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I get that steriods are illegal...but why do the feds care so much?

I think they should just save the tax payers and baseball fans some $$$ and just have it in the books as a the Steriod Era

Because children are using steroids, and it is a big health risk.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...vidence/1.html

The committee's stated purpose in conducting this investigation is far grander than the possible use of steroids and HGH by Clemens or that of the other players scheduled to testify. It is about examining whether federal laws were violated and whether the failure of Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players' Association to curb the use of illegal performance-enhancing drugs has unintentionally made young athletes more prone to using those drugs.

[transplant99]

Who will believe Fraudger now?

Look, I truly belive that he and about 600 other players not named all did the juice. Thats certainly not not going to be a surprise (one way or the other) to anyone.

I REALLY have to question this nonsense however. What is McNamee doing holding a baggie full of syringes and gauze.....6 years after the time they were used? That just doesnt seem in any way, shape or form...logical. It also opens a massive "here is what happened plausibility".

The entire "campaign" this guy has had going against Clemens is bizarre. i dont"know" that Clemons cheated, just like I dont know Bonds did. However, I have 2 eyes like most have.....and those receptacles tell me all I need to know...Palmiero be damed.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Look, I truly belive that he and about 600 other players not named all did the juice. Thats certainly not not going to be a surprise (one way or the other) to anyone.

I REALLY have to question this nonsense however. What is McNamee doing holding a baggie full of syringes and gauze.....6 years after the time they were used? That just doesnt seem in any way, shape or form...logical. It also opens a massive "here is what happened plausibility".

The entire "campaign" this guy has had going against Clemens is bizarre. i dont"know" that Clemons cheated, just like I dont know Bonds did. However, I have 2 eyes like most have.....and those receptacles tell me all I need to know...Palmiero be damed.

From a baseball site I visit frequently. Best theory I've heard anyways.

Crazy like a fox. If you were the most vulnerable, the most dispensable party to an incident such as the one alleged, and you were able actually to keep physical evidence that what you said was true, so that it would be very difficult to disprove your version of events, wouldn't you keep such evidence? As long as needed?

[Bobblehead]

Well, if McNamee did what he claims (injected steroids/HGH) then can't have strong ethics. Who's to say he wasn't keeping them for some sort of blackmail, or future "leverage".

[troutman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I REALLY have to question this nonsense however. What is McNamee doing holding a baggie full of syringes and gauze.....6 years after the time they were used? That just doesnt seem in any way, shape or form...logical. It also opens a massive "here is what happened plausibility".

Clemens is suing him for millions. Good thing he held on to the evidence. My guess - he knew that if the steroids ever hit the fan, he would need evidence to protect himself. He knew Fraudger's character, and what he was capable of.

Caramon's quote above hints at this rationale as well.

[OILFAN #81]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=229211&hubname=

Clemens' wife was the one who was injected.

[SarichFan]

His wife??? wtf...

[Flames in 07]

I don't know if anyone is going to be able to disprove the other, but I keep coming back to why would McNamee lie? what's in it for him, he's certainly not enjoying life right about now.

And he accused Knoblock, and he admitted use, he accused Pettite, and he admitted use. So why tell the truth about some then just throw Roger in for the heck of it?

[troutman]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

One of Brian McNamee's lawyers said Sunday he believed the Justice Department will open a criminal investigation into Roger Clemens' denials of doping.

Meantime, the chairman of a congressional committee said comments attributed to one of the pitcher's lawyers could be interpreted as trying to intimidate a federal law enforcement official.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=229211&hubname=

Clemens' wife was the one who was injected.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...e=caple/080211

[JiriHrdina]

Well you know things are a mess when John Rocker starts to bet involved.

He says baseball knew about steroids in sports and that he himself tested positive.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...YjhqqPFbe66A6g

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well you know things are a mess when John Rocker starts to bet involved.

He says baseball knew about steroids in sports and that he himself tested positive.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...YjhqqPFbe66A6g

One of the least surprising cases IMO, the guy was completely nuts. I find it funny too how he is "admitting" to taking them now when Mitchell outted him last month. About time Johnny boy.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

One of the least surprising cases IMO, the guy was completely nuts. I find it funny too how he is "admitting" to taking them now when Mitchell outted him last month. About time Johnny boy.

ya, but to me that's not the point. The point is that MLB knew about the prevailant use of steroids, and didn't care.

There should be more focus on MLB and the MLBPA and how they allowed for the common use of these drugs.

It just seems like everyone in the media wants to light up Bonds and Clemens then wash their hands of the story. I'm all for them being punished and kept out of the hall, but I'm surprised nobody is coming down on Selig or the PA.