Music lessons

[Fuzzy McGillicuddy]

The timing of this thread is pretty interesting.

Like a lot of other kids, I was forced to take piano lessons when I was a kid. I didn't particularly enjoy it. I only took lessons for two years, but I did well. Now as an adult, I regret not having continued.

Fast forward to the present. I was in a coffee shop/club in Vancouver a few weeks ago. An older guy walks in and asks to play the piano in the corner. He played well enough. Later, he told me he didn't start playing until he was 57. Now he's in his 60's. That was all the inspiration I needed.

When I got back home, I bought a Yamaha keyboard online. 88 keys. Weighted. It arrived a few days ago. Now I'm looking to take lessons.

How hard is it to find a decent music instructor?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

But I disagree with those who say you need to see that your child has a passion for something, before you get them into it. A lot of 8-10 year old kids think of nothing but getting home from school and playing video games or the like. You need to expose your child to something and make them try it, before they'll discover whether their love for it exists or not. Otherwise you end up with kids who don't discover and act on their love for music until they're 14, at which point their lives are busy and schedules hectic, and combined with the late start, they never end up going anywhere.

As for the videogames I recall the exact moment I sat at home and decided that I would rather play Wild Gunmen on my Nintendo (the game Marty McFly plays in 80's Cafe in Back to the Future II) rather than goto my piano lesson and my parents dropped me out soon after. The passions are there but most kids are unfocused and make their decisions based on immature feelings of happiness or fear. It's best that your expose them to things versus letting them find things out on their own. But I know the main reason why I quit and that was pressure and stress at an age where it was causing me more pain than enjoyment.

What you say is very true, as with all intelligent creatures - stimulation and exposure to as many things musical, intellectual, social, etc. helps the brain grow the most in those critical developing young ages and forms their personality and abilities for an entire lifetime. Remeber however, that those experiences if negative, can also adversely affect how they feel about certain things...sometimes for years or even life.

It's best to learn with the kid, expose them to music at home, play with them if you can, hold their hand through it. Here's my warning, don't get into the madness of pushing your very young kids into bloody stupid things like the Kiwanis Music Festival. This is not so much a festival, but rather a cruel torture chamber that will mash your young, frightened, and nervous kids into hamburger making them hate playing music, practicing music, etc. Get your kid to play in venues that he feels comfortable in, that makes him want to show off. Don't put him into the stress of competitions and all that ilk. That's probably the single biggest mistake I think my parents and many others ever did. All those piano competitions and the pressures of the Kiwanis Festival of Impending Gruesome Death on Stage at the age of 7 really killed it for me until I became an adult. I still don't deal well with stress and preparing with public situations like that these days. I don't know why so many adults don't see that their kids are frightened and suffering unless they really are born with confidence and are virtuosos. Sure I can see it's merits and for the kids that adapt well to it, it might give them more backbone...but for somebody like me who was just interested in music for music's sake, even at the age of 7 I knew it was for the expression of one's individuality...and not performing for crowds or competiting for podium finishes with other kids...playing mechanical regurgitated music and all this garbage wasn't for me and it really scarred me then and put me off learning and practicing music for more than a decade.

[evman150]

I was forced to do piano lessons when I was younger. I didn't mind doing it, but once I hit high school that was it. Although I wasn't done with music just yet.

Now that I'm 21 I'm really glad I grew up with music. It was just a part of my life, but in retrospect it was very enriching. I'm proud to say I was trained classically as a pianist and did my Royal Conservatory exams up to grade 6. That's not that high, but it's no piece of cake either.

I also played trumpet reasonably well and the baritone quite well. I enjoy classical music. I have taken a couple music classes at university.

Music is a wonderful part of life. My kids will grow up with music, no doubt. I recommend everybody have some grounding in music fundamentals.

[arloiginla]

Originally Posted by redforever

You asked for views from parents. I am a parent, I gave my views. You are a student, a non parent I am gathering, one whose life is music, asking parents for their opinions.

As I said previously, I have no problem with music lessons, hockey lessons, swimming lessons, whatever, but if they are forced on the child, it is my opinion that any interest in that activity is usually thwarted, not moulded into a lasting love. It is my personal opinion that children will do far better if they are enrolled in activities that compliment their talents.

My children had all kinds of lessons, like I said, I come from a very musical family. My daughter plays piano, flute, trombone. My son's primary instrument is trumpet, he got to see a lot of the world with his music. He was in the Honor Band of Alberta, Stampede marching bands, school bands etc. He also plays the guitar, right now that is his favorite instrument and is self taught. But he can play cello, tuba, various other wind instruments. He initially started on the piano, he asked for lessons when he saw how my daughter could play. That lasted a year or so, then he asked to get into trumpet. And over the years, I never had to ask him to practise etc, music was an activity he enjoyed.

I personally do not see the importance of music increasing until the education system puts an emphasis on more than just the 3 R's. That does not mean that I do not agree with you about the importance of music. It has always been my opinion that the fine arts and sports are just as important as the core curriculum. BUT, whenever there have been cut backs in education, and there have been cutbacks in this province for the last 15 years, what is the first to go? Right, the fine arts and sports. So when you get parents asking for more of those programs because they believe they are important, then you will see an associated increase in private music lessons.

I agree, but I don't see that happening. As the generations move along and more young parents who either a) weren't exposed to music as a child or b) were exposed and ruined by it, raise kids of their own, I think we are going to see even less of this.

But I do appreciate your opinion, and you are right, I am not a parent so I really don't know the mindset at all, that's why I was asking parents here for their opinions.

[Kipper is King]

I played trombone in Jr.High band, and I really enjoyed it! Now, I'm hoping to get back into it.

[redforever]

Quote:
Originally Posted by redforever
I personally do not see the importance of music increasing until the education system puts an emphasis on more than just the 3 R's. That does not mean that I do not agree with you about the importance of music. It has always been my opinion that the fine arts and sports are just as important as the core curriculum. BUT, whenever there have been cut backs in education, and there have been cutbacks in this province for the last 15 years, what is the first to go? Right, the fine arts and sports. So when you get parents asking for more of those programs because they believe they are important, then you will see an associated increase in private music lessons.

I agree, but I don't see that happening. As the generations move along and more young parents who either a) weren't exposed to music as a child or b) were exposed and ruined by it, raise kids of their own, I think we are going to see even less of this.

But I do appreciate your opinion, and you are right, I am not a parent so I really don't know the mindset at all, that's why I was asking parents here for their opinions.

Where there has been an emphasis put on the fine arts, it has flourished. My children went to the Foothills Composite in Okotoks for highschool. The Alberta School of Fine Arts is housed within that facility. I think the enrolment was around 60 students from all over the province, what the size is now, I am not sure, but it was flourishing. Students enrolled in the Alberta School of Fine Arts fulfilled all of the requirements for a regular highschool diploma AND they received a major in the fine arts to go along with that diploma. My children took some of the classes from the Fine Arts school as well, it is not closed to only students enrolled in that program.

[Kipper is King]

Originally Posted by redforever

I personally do not see the importance of music increasing until the education system puts an emphasis on more than just the 3 R's. That does not mean that I do not agree with you about the importance of music. It has always been my opinion that the fine arts and sports are just as important as the core curriculum. BUT, whenever there have been cut backs in education, and there have been cutbacks in this province for the last 15 years, what is the first to go? Right, the fine arts and sports. So when you get parents asking for more of those programs because they believe they are important, then you will see an associated increase in private music lessons.

My parents have bvoth been in the school system as teachers/administrators for ages. You mentioned the cutbacks to education, and you're right that funding is serious problem. I'm sure schools would love to place more emphasis on band programs and general appreciation of music, but they can't- there's not enough funding for education. When it comes down to music vs. reading and writing, music will lose out because reading and writing is that much more critical.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

I agree, but I don't see that happening. As the generations move along and more young parents who either a) weren't exposed to music as a child or b) were exposed and ruined by it, raise kids of their own, I think we are going to see even less of this.

But I do appreciate your opinion, and you are right, I am not a parent so I really don't know the mindset at all, that's why I was asking parents here for their opinions.

I don't see it with your first example, parents who were not exposed to music. We are all exposed to music in some sense, not all of us take lessons and play an instrument. Not having that as a child does not mean we will not want that for our children.

I do agree with your second example, those exposed to music and ruined by it. That is my main fear.

All of us have a talent to appreciate music. Some of us appreciate music more than others and some of us appreciate more forms of music than others. BUT, not all of us have a talent for PRODUCING music on some instrument. And it is those children who usually will have a bad experience taking lessons on some instrument, they will have such bad memories that they will never wish that upon their own children.

There is a very fine line introducing children to new activities, music being one of them. And that is why I am of the belief that children will do better by being exposed to interests that compliment their talents.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

My parents have bvoth been in the school system as teachers/administrators for ages. You mentioned the cutbacks to education, and you're right that funding is serious problem. I'm sure schools would love to place more emphasis on band programs and general appreciation of music, but they can't- there's not enough funding for education. When it comes down to music vs. reading and writing, music will lose out because reading and writing is that much more critical.

In most cases, this is exactly the scenario that plays out. However, if you have the case where administration in a school as well as the parents and students in that community support such a concept, then the concept will fly. And I give again the example of the Alberta School of Fine Arts in Okotoks. More emphasis was put on that school during the whole time of cutbacks. Administration had a vision, the vision was supported by parents and students, the vision is flourishing.

Money of course speaks volumes but fine arts programs can and will work where they are explained and supported.

[arloiginla]

Originally Posted by redforever

There is a very fine line introducing children to new activities, music being one of them. And that is why I am of the belief that children will do better by being exposed to interests that compliment their talents.

Who and how do you decide which activities compliment a child's talents? I lot of people I know (myself included to some extent) didn't really discover where our talents lay, or where our passion was kindled, until later on in childhood, at which time you get a late start.

Just wondering, does a 7 year old really know that they are musically apt and physically blessed to play an instrument, or does a parent need to originally choose that for them, and let the child decide whether or not to stick with it as they get older?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

Who and how do you decide which activities compliment a child's talents? I lot of people I know (myself included to some extent) didn't really discover where our talents lay, or where our passion was kindled, until later on in childhood, at which time you get a late start.

Just wondering, does a 7 year old really know that they are musically apt and physically blessed to play an instrument, or does a parent need to originally choose that for them, and let the child decide whether or not to stick with it as they get older?

As far as I am concerned, late starts are far better than early starts with the wrong instructors etc. And I do not think the right approach is to initially start them with lessons on an instrument. There are all kinds of programs around town, through community associations, through continuing education, quite often through libraries, through play groups, even Mount Royal etc, where you can enrol your children to get initial music appreciation. So children can sing along to music, they can perhaps be introduced to easy instruments like tamborines etc that they can all play to some extent, they can take music they can dance to as well, all sorts of easy first encounters to music. Then with that kind of exposure, you will see if your child enjoys music, has an ear for music and a talent for playing an instrument.

Ask Wayne Gretzky about his thoughts on childrens first encounters with hockey. He will tell you it should be fun early on with an emphasis on skating and just shooting the puck around. They do not need to be in organized practises 3 times a week, games 2 or 3 times a week, and all the hoopla and stress that comes along with that.

Actually, ask kids in highschool what they think they will be later on in life. Most will find that a hard question to answer. You need time to mature and you need to develop a whole set of skills before you can make all these kinds of choices. So give your children the benefit of some time.

The biggest danger with early exposure to any activity that puts too much emphasis on skills too early on and demands too much of their time when they are so young is you burn them out by the time they are of the age where they can begin to really develop some skills.

And remember, we can not choose what our children will be in life, we can not guarantee their success in life and we should not force them into activites that we think are important. We can nurture that to a certain extent but in the end, you have to see your children develop and give them the chance to develop the skills they were born with. We are all different and while music might be the foundation in your life, be prepared for the fact that might not be the case with your child. So relax, there is only so much you are in control of as a parent and time takes care of a lot of these things. If children do not start to appreciate some of the things you feel are important until later on in life, it is not the end of the world.

[arloiginla]

Originally Posted by redforever

As far as I am concerned, late starts are far better than early starts with the wrong instructors etc. And I do not think the right approach is to initially start them with lessons on an instrument. There are all kinds of programs around town, through community associations, through continuing education, quite often through libraries, through play groups, even Mount Royal etc, where you can enrol your children to get initial music appreciation. So children can sing along to music, they can perhaps be introduced to easy instruments like tamborines etc that they can all play to some extent, they can take music they can dance to as well, all sorts of easy first encounters to music. Then with that kind of exposure, you will see if your child enjoys music, has an ear for music and a talent for playing an instrument.

Ask Wayne Gretzky about his thoughts on childrens first encounters with hockey. He will tell you it should be fun early on with an emphasis on skating and just shooting the puck around. They do not need to be in organized practises 3 times a week, games 2 or 3 times a week, and all the hoopla and stress that comes along with that.

Actually, ask kids in highschool what they think they will be later on in life. Most will find that a hard question to answer. You need time to mature and you need to develop a whole set of skills before you can make all these kinds of choices. So give your children the benefit of some time.

The biggest danger with early exposure to any activity that puts too much emphasis on skills too early on and demands too much of their time when they are so young is you burn them out by the time they are of the age where they can begin to really develop some skills.

And remember, we can not choose what our children will be in life, we can not guarantee their success in life and we should not force them into activites that we think are important. We can nurture that to a certain extent but in the end, you have to see your children develop and give them the chance to develop the skills they were born with. We are all different and while music might be the foundation in your life, be prepared for the fact that might not be the case with your child. So relax, there is only so much you are in control of as a parent and time takes care of a lot of these things. If children do not start to appreciate some of the things you feel are important until later on in life, it is not the end of the world.

Thanks for the thoughts, I have seen many parents and children on both sides of the equation and sometimes, it hasn't been pretty being the 3rd party teacher on either side of this equation. Obviously being a parent is more difficult than meets the eye but it definitely helps to understand the mentality and mindset of someone on the other side.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

Thanks for the thoughts, I have seen many parents and children on both sides of the equation and sometimes, it hasn't been pretty being the 3rd party teacher on either side of this equation. Obviously being a parent is more difficult than meets the eye but it definitely helps to understand the mentality and mindset of someone on the other side.

I gather you have had to tell Mommy and Daddy that their little Johnny or little Jane is not the next child prodigy? ((

[arloiginla]

Originally Posted by redforever

I gather you have had to tell Mommy and Daddy that their little Johnny or little Jane is not the next child prodigy? ((

Yup, and trust me it isn't a nice feeling

[flambers]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

For those parents out there, how do you view music and its importance in your own or your child's life?

IMO, Music is an important element to a kid's education, I believe all kids attend music class in elementary school. My daughter started Violin lessons about 5 months ago, she seems to really enjoy music.

Hopefully she will stay with it.