Sudanese children name Teddy Bear "Muhammad" - Teacher sentenced to 15 days in prison

[maverickeastwood]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

well the problem is that those "few" have way too much power. from Sudan to Saudi Arabia to Iran, it's all wacko fundamentalists in charge and that's just the tip of the iceberg. if they were really in the minority i think the majority would opt for change and put more moderate leaders in charge don't you think?

We judge what we don`t understand=ignornance. In this case, we are not the majority, but the outside looking in. What would they say about us...we are worse messed up? We have crammed our "way"" down the throats of this countries native people and we're gonna try and do it for the rest of the world when we haven't resolved our own indifferences...gimme a break.

[octothorp]

Jeez, this is Sudan were talking about. Making a big deal about this is like criticizing the nazis for their fashion sense. You've got a government that is, by it's inaction, encouraging genocide or at the very least a humanitarian nightmare, and people get upset over one schoolteacher being deported.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Jeez, this is Sudan were talking about. Making a big deal about this is like criticizing the nazis for their fashion sense. You've got a government that is, by it's inaction, encouraging genocide or at the very least a humanitarian nightmare, and people get upset over one schoolteacher being deported.

Oh come on.

lashing/deportation of 1 white woman > murder of 10,000 black civilians

Obviously the world is going to be outraged by this treatment of a white woman. Massacres, systemic rape, torture and 2,000,000 black civilians chased off their land - mmm - not so much outrage.

[Locke]

I dont know what the rest of you are complaining about, this seems like a perfectly acceptable method of handling the situation.

I've imprisoned and deported people for way less.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well clearly this is dumb, but calling 15 days in the clink for breaking the law "extremist muslim savagery" is just a little bit over the top.

It's not just 15 days in the clink that people want...

http://www.enews20.com/news_Demonstr...her_04109.html

[Cowperson]

Protests erupted in the Sudanese capital Khartoum Friday, with thousands of angry demonstrators calling for the death of a British teacher who was convicted of blasphemy for allowing her students to name a teddy bear Mohammed.

The protestors poured out of mosques following Friday prayers, some carrying knives and clubs, just a day after Gillian Gibbons, 54, was sentenced to 15 days in prison, rather than a year, 40 lashes or a fine.

The throngs of people gathered in Martyrs' Square outside the presidential palace chanting "no tolerance - execution" and "kill her, kill her by firing squad," the BBC reported.

Ah, simple country folk . . . .

Coincidentally, "Inherit The Wind," a movie about the famous Monkey Trial, was on Turner Classic last night.

The world is, if nothing else, an eternally entertaining place.

Cowperson

[rawr]

So the Sudanese protestors say that she should be put to death for naming a teddy bear Muhammed. I fear for those parents who have named their sons Muhammed and have grown up to be criminals...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rawr

So the Sudanese protestors say that she should be put to death for naming a teddy bear Muhammed. I fear for those parents who have named their sons Muhammed and have grown up to be criminals...

As long as they do it over here its okay.......

[BlackEleven]

I don't get why naming the bear Mohammed was such a bad thing. Its okay to name people after the prophet but not teddy bears? I thought it would be an honour not an insult. Obviously the students thought the same -- they were the ones who voted to have the bear named Mohammed in the first place.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

I don't get why naming the bear Mohammed was such a bad thing. Its okay to name people after the prophet but not teddy bears? I thought it would be an honour not an insult Obviously the students thought the same -- they were the ones who voted to have the bear Mohammed in the first place.

This part I can understand because some cultures are very picky about names and symbolism. Humans are the only worthy beings that should have names.

So dogs and cats should not be named after gods or dead relatives.
And a stuffed teddy bear should not be named after a god. To some, even the idea of the existance of a teddy bear is dumb.

But as the minister in the article said.. this is more of a cultural faux pas than a crime.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

I don't get why naming the bear Mohammed was such a bad thing. Its okay to name people after the prophet but not teddy bears? I thought it would be an honour not an insult. Obviously the students thought the same -- they were the ones who voted to have the bear named Mohammed in the first place.

The teacher should have been astute enough to know this would not fly in a mainly Muslim country. I mean, did we not just recently have the whole outrage of the cartoons printed in a Dutch paper? We might not understand the religion or the logic of the people practising that religion but we should at least have the smarts to be sensitive to the religion, especially in their own country.

This woman is in their country, working in their country, she should have used common sense. And the first thing she should have done when she accepted a teaching position in that country was educate herself about the various religions in that country and the culture of that country.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by redforever

The teacher should have been astute enough to know this would not fly in a mainly Muslim country. I mean, did we not just recently have the whole outrage of the cartoons printed in a Dutch paper? We might not understand the religion or the logic of the people practising that religion but we should at least have the smarts to be sensitive to the religion, especially in their own country.

This woman is in their country, working in their country, she should have used common sense. And the first thing she should have done when she accepted a teaching position in that country was educate herself about the various religions in that country and the culture of that country.

The Muslim students in the class voted to name the bear Mohammed.

There was no complaint from any Muslim parent of any student in the class.

Cowperson

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by redforever

The teacher should have been astute enough to know this would not fly in a mainly Muslim country. I mean, did we not just recently have the whole outrage of the cartoons printed in a Dutch paper? We might not understand the religion or the logic of the people practising that religion but we should at least have the smarts to be sensitive to the religion, especially in their own country.

This woman is in their country, working in their country, she should have used common sense. And the first thing she should have done when she accepted a teaching position in that country was educate herself about the various religions in that country and the culture of that country.

Who's to say she didn't educate herself on the various religions of Sudan? I'm sure if she read something that stated do not give inanimate objects names of prophets, she would have obliged. Like the article says, its not a law more of a faux pas. I think its a little unreasonable to expect someone to be aware of every single faux pas in a foreign culture or religion. It's not like she was reading the Satanic Verses to the class here. I, personally, lived in a Muslim country for over four years and never knew this was offensive.

Futher, none of the children or parents complained about the name. If it was so gravely offensive, you think this could have been stopped in its tracks before it got out of hand.

Oh and the cartoons were in a Danish paper btw, not Dutch.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

Who's to say she didn't educate herself on the various religions of Sudan? I'm sure if she read something that stated do not give inanimate objects names of prophets, she would have obliged. Like the article says, its not a law more of a faux pas. I think its a little unreasonable to expect someone to be aware of every single faux pas in a foreign culture or religion. It's not like she was reading the Satanic Verses to the class here. I, personally, lived in a Muslim country for over four years and never knew this was offensive.

Futher, none of the children or parents complained about the name. If it was so gravely offensive, you think this could have been stopped in its tracks before it got out of hand.

Oh and the cartoons were in a Danish paper btw, not Dutch.

I agree it is more of a faux pas than a law. And it is these type of faux pas that get you in hot water more than a lot of laws would. With all the recent press regarding those cartoons, in the DANISH paper, not Dutch as I had recalled, you could not get me in a million years to name anything Mohammed in any Muslim country. It is no excuse to say if she would have read something about giving the name of prophets to inanimate objects, she would have obliged. If you are being employed in a foreign country, you better be more sensitive than this teacher was. As far as I am concerned, this equates with calling a teddy bear KKK in the deep south of the USA and then feign innocence and say, if I had known what KKK means, I would not have allowed that teddy bear to have that name.

[TheDragon]

Ironically enough, the 2nd most common chosen boy's name in Britain this year was Muhammad, or any variation of the spelling thereof.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by TheDragon

Ironically enough, the 2nd most common chosen boy's name in Britain this year was Muhammad, or any variation of the spelling thereof.

It is an honor to call their sons Muhammad. Many Spanish also call their sons Jesus. On the other hand, the name Chris is offensive to them because it is too close to Christ.

There are cultures and religions different from what we are used to all over the world. To simply say "I don't understand why it is offensive to name a teddy bear Muhammad when so many give their sons that same name" does not cut it.

That is unique to them just like many things are unique to us.

[Cowperson]

That is unique to them just like many things are unique to us.

In Afghanistan about two years ago, a credible poll found that 95% of Afghan's believed a court was being "merciful" in giving a recent Muslim convert to Christianity the chance to renounce his new religion or face death.

That's a remarkable uniformity of thought.

What is "unique to us" is that a multi-cultural society of some tolerance will almost never have 95% of people agree on anything. Scraping together 60% is almost a miracle on most topics.

In fact, I would wager than 95% of us wouldn't even agree that execution is an excessive punishment for this lady for allowing a teddy bear to be named Mohammed.

Cowperson

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by redforever

I agree it is more of a faux pas than a law. And it is these type of faux pas that get you in hot water more than a lot of laws would. With all the recent press regarding those cartoons, in the DANISH paper, not Dutch as I had recalled, you could not get me in a million years to name anything Mohammed in any Muslim country. It is no excuse to say if she would have read something about giving the name of prophets to inanimate objects, she would have obliged. If you are being employed in a foreign country, you better be more sensitive than this teacher was. As far as I am concerned, this equates with calling a teddy bear KKK in the deep south of the USA and then feign innocence and say, if I had known what KKK means, I would not have allowed that teddy bear to have that name.

I think where you and I differ on opinion is on where the teacher's responsibilty in a foreign culture begins and ends. For me personally, if the due dilligence has been done, then it all boils down to intent. Is it really an insult if you didn't intend it as such?

We do agree on some points. I agree with you that the teacher should be well versed in laws and religious customs, especially when teaching in a poor, third world country where religious fundamentalism runs rampant. She should do her due dilligence and research the religion and culture as much as possible to try and avoid any such conflicts. However, I disagree with you that she could have had any way of knowing that naming the bear Mohammed was offensive for several reasons.

Firstly, the bear received its name by the children, not the teacher. I agree with your earlier comment that she should have vetoed this if she perceived it to be a religious offense, but I don't think she had any reason to believe so. Why would the children name the bear after their prophet if they knew it to be offensive? And why would she not think the name was to honour the prophet, as is typically the case in Western culture when we name something after a specific person? And why in serveral months would no one come forward and tell her than she's insulting the prophet?

I understand she should be wary of the Danish cartoons and the situation that created, but I don't think the comparison is valid in this case. The Danish cartoons were intentionally poking fun -- after all that is the purpose of cartoons -- at some aspects of the Muslim faith. I think we can agree that her intent was not trying to poke fun of Mohammed by likening him to a stuffed animal, even though that's the way it was percieved.

And I don't think you're KKK example holds water either. I don't kids in the deep south would name a bear KKK unless that was a either common first name in the deep south to begin with or the name of a religious figure, or both. They're not just going to randomly concoct a name which just so happens to be offensive.

And even if everything I have said is false there is, of course, there's the question whether such an offensive deserves 15 days in jail and deportation. We both agree this is a case of a faux pas more so that a violation of law. Does committing a faux pas warrant jail time and deportation? Even if we disagree that teacher could have prevented this, does she still deserve what she got?

[TheDragon]

Originally Posted by redforever

It is an honor to call their sons Muhammad. Many Spanish also call their sons Jesus. On the other hand, the name Chris is offensive to them because it is too close to Christ.

There are cultures and religions different from what we are used to all over the world. To simply say "I don't understand why it is offensive to name a teddy bear Muhammad when so many give their sons that same name" does not cut it.

That is unique to them just like many things are unique to us.

That's just the thing, though. She didn't pick the name, the children did... and even the children, obviously, didn't know that this was such a "religious faux pas," that would inevitably lead to her arrest and deportation, and then later a protest calling for her execution. Or maybe they did?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Not to ignore the seriousness of the situation, but isn't being deported from the Sudan like winning the lottery? She can't really go anywhere worse.