Blue Jays Official Offseason 2007-2008 Threa

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Fine it's a brilliant acquisition that will make the Jays an AL East contender! They should be spending 2 million a year on mediocre back up middle infielders instead of figuring out how to scout and develop proper legitimate young prospects like the Indians do.

It's pretty hard to scout and develop prospects in a couple months time. There's nothing ready in the cupboard so what the hell do you expect JP to do? Yes the Jays drafting does need to improve (and it did this past draft), but that has absolutely nothing to do with Scutaro.

If it's such a terrible pick-up then tell me what the Jays could do to improve their shortshops this season. There's nothing in the UFA market so tell me who's available to trade for.

JP improved the SS position and gave up no one of value. Seeing how it's barely even the off-season I don't see how you can complain about it.

Has the UFA signing period even started yet? I don't see how JP's supposed to make this big splash when he doesn't even have the opportunity to yet...

[Sylvanfan]

So this is a guy who's never slugged 400 at the major league level. Hits right handed, and doesn't offer much for speed. He's a marginal upgrade on McDonald offensively. On occasion I guess he can go play first base against a left handed pitcher.

I dont' know who was or is available...Geoff Blum is a utility infielder who's at least a Switch hitter. Cesar Izturus is also a switch hitter who would bring an element of speed to the teams. Is a guy like Scutaro really going to be that significant of an upgrade on a Russ Adams? It just seems like they added another player who's already very similar to what they have in the fold. It reminds me of when Craig Button traded for Blake Sloan when he already had Scott Nichol and Steve Begin on his team...Why?

I'd rather the team stop spending money on having a Scutaro and McDonald on the same team take the 2 million and spend it on their development system or a better manager, or better GM so that one day they could compete with the Yankees. But with this being his first move, yeah, I'm a big time skeptic that he's going to make similar moves to what he's done the last two seasons which has helped the team go from winning 80 games to 86 and 83....

[flambers]

Personally I believe JP was simply looking for another shortstop/Infielder. This firms up the Shortstop position.

This was a move to get an utility player nothing more...... I would guess the games will be split between the two of them. If the new Shortstop can produce more offense than McDonald its an alright move.

JP's next move is to find a backup Catcher and possibly a 5th Starting Pitcher.

[Sylvanfan]

If they ship out McDonald and find a different backup short stop who brings some unique elements to the team...than I understand the deal. But until that happens, I'm going to say it looks redundant on the surface. I admit things can change....I hope that something else does happen.

[CaramonLS]

JayP - I think Syl's point was that when you defensively adjust the two players (take into account Scutaro's defense + offense vs. McDonald's Defense + offense), they are vitually washes, with Scutaro coming out ahead by a bit.

The thing is, the Jays don't have a lot of room to move - they can't make any changes to their roster with the contracts they've locked in. I fully expect this to be the biggest or the 2nd biggest move of the offseason. If it is not, I'll be very surprised.

The Jays should have been talking with the Angels - who have a backlog at the SS position, or with Tampa Bay. Zobrist seems to be a prospect Tampa has given up on, given his age, but his track record at the Minors (AAA included) indicates he isn't getting the fair shake he deserves. He could be a major OBP producer at the ML level.

The Angels on the other hand, have a backlog at the SS position. Orlando Cabrera, the Vet with another 2 years on his contract (I think or at least 1), Brandon Wood (the VERY, VERY promising prospect, who is ready to play at the major league level RIGHT NOW), Maicer Izturis (who is young and put up good numbers in the minors, and solid numbers for an SS at the major league level) and Erick Aybar, who hasn't put up the Major league numbers yet, but is very young (23 years old) and played well in the minors.

And it also made me wonder why JP didn't try to make a move to acquire Wilson Betemit, who was blocked in LA/ATL at the SS position, and was traded to the Yankees to acquire Proctor - surely the Jays could have offered a better MR guy - Both Frasor/Downs for example among others were both superior pitchers to him last year. He also has splits which significantly favor hitting RHP, which we really need.

Any of those 6 options I stated would likely out perform what we have to date, and are very likely doable for a good GM.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

If they ship out McDonald and find a different backup short stop who brings some unique elements to the team...than I understand the deal. But until that happens, I'm going to say it looks redundant on the surface. I admit things can change....I hope that something else does happen.

Why would they move out McDonald? Jays need an extra Infielder who can play multiple positions. I believe folks are over examining this move the Jays were looking for a utility player nothing more. Its not a huge move...

As for chasing a high profile Short stop, I would of loved that move but the Jays have to give up something decent to get something decent. That seems to be the problem. JP seems to want to stay with the same core and change only a small element.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

The thing is, the Jays don't have a lot of room to move - they can't make any changes to their roster with the contracts they've locked in. I fully expect this to be the biggest or the 2nd biggest move of the offseason. If it is not, I'll be very surprised.

Agreed, the Blue Jays have said it all along they like their current team and don't predict any major moves this season. JP also commented he was looking for a Utility Infielder and a Backup catcher.

[CaramonLS]

Also Disregard my Cabrera part, because he was just traded to the WhiteSox like an hour or 2 ago. But my point stood on he was "available".

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotr...d-to-ange.html

Oh and according to Jeff Blair, the Jays have made inquiries for Michael Barrett and Matt Clement. Clement was very good for the Cubs a couple years ago, but collasped with the BoSox after injuries.

Both players, I would consider to be solid pickups with high upside if we manage to get them. These would be very good moves by JP IMO.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

So this is a guy who's never slugged 400 at the major league level. Hits right handed, and doesn't offer much for speed. He's a marginal upgrade on McDonald offensively. On occasion I guess he can go play first base against a left handed pitcher.

I dont' know who was or is available...Geoff Blum is a utility infielder who's at least a Switch hitter. Cesar Izturus is also a switch hitter who would bring an element of speed to the teams. Is a guy like Scutaro really going to be that significant of an upgrade on a Russ Adams? It just seems like they added another player who's already very similar to what they have in the fold. It reminds me of when Craig Button traded for Blake Sloan when he already had Scott Nichol and Steve Begin on his team...Why?

I'd rather the team stop spending money on having a Scutaro and McDonald on the same team take the 2 million and spend it on their development system or a better manager, or better GM so that one day they could compete with the Yankees. But with this being his first move, yeah, I'm a big time skeptic that he's going to make similar moves to what he's done the last two seasons which has helped the team go from winning 80 games to 86 and 83....

Geoff Blum has a lower Avg, OBP, SLG, and OPS over his career than Scutaro and is two years older. His natural position is 2B as well and the Jays definitely need a utility infielder primarily as a SS back-up.

Cesar Izturas is even worse than Geoff Blum offensively . He's the exact same player as John McDonald. Speed is ridiculously over-rated too.

I wouldn't call a .110 OPS upgrade in offense over McDonald marginal either. That's the difference between a Alfonso Soriano or a Lance Berkman over the Aubrey Huff's, Kevin Millar's, and Kenny Loften's of the world.

The fact is that one of the Jays problems last year was they had no depth in the infield. Getting Scutaro helps this in a big way.

[flambers]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3117422

Quote from the ESPN article....In my view this is why they traded for the guy....

"Scutaro, who developed quite the knack for game-winning hits during his four years with the A's, batted .260 with seven home runs and 41 RBIs in 104 games this past season. He made 86 starts at five different positions, including 38 at shortstop, 33 at third base, 12 at second base, two in right field and one in left field."

[JayP]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Also Disregard my Cabrera part, because he was just traded to the WhiteSox like an hour or 2 ago. But my point stood on he was "available".

Okay, he was available. But the Blue Jay equivilant to John Garland is A.J. Burnett. You make that trade and now the starting rotation is a huge problem.

The problem with any of the guys you listed is the same as Cabrera - the Jays would have to give up a lot of MLB players to get them. For a team that wants to win now that isn't a real option.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by JayP

Okay, he was available. But the Blue Jay equivilant to John Garland is A.J. Burnett. You make that trade and now the starting rotation is a huge problem.

Jon Garland is nowhere near AJ Burnett's level. He has had one good year and then reverted back to his career numbers which is ~ a mid 4 ERA pitcher. Good mid-back end rotation guy though, but lets not confuse the issue here.

Not to mention, the Whitesox have been trying to get rid of him all season long.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by flambers

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3117422

Quote from the ESPN article....In my view this is why they traded for the guy....

"Scutaro, who developed quite the knack for game-winning hits during his four years with the A's, batted .260 with seven home runs and 41 RBIs in 104 games this past season. He made 86 starts at five different positions, including 38 at shortstop, 33 at third base, 12 at second base, two in right field and one in left field."

Yeah, I'm not sure why there's all this criticism over a bench/depth player signing. They didn't blow the budget on this guy.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by JayP

The problem with any of the guys you listed is the same as Cabrera - the Jays would have to give up a lot of MLB players to get them. For a team that wants to win now that isn't a real option.

'A lot of MLB players' sounds like a lot of BS.

How much do you think unestablished players in MLB go for? Look at the Josh Beckett deal if you want a gauge on how much prospects are really worth, keep into consideration that Mike Lowell was considered Washed up at the time, and therefore had to be taken as "tax" on the deal. Florida got Hanley Rameriz (Boston's best prospect at the time, and much more regarded than Wood) and another stud pitching Prospect Anabel Sanchez, who threw a no hitter 2 seasons ago.

A possible future star like Brandon Wood probably wouldn't be cheap, but if it gives the Jays a legitimate shot of having a very good starting SS for the next 5 years, why wouldn't you be interested in say dealing from a position of strength (the bullpen) for a guy like him?

The Jays should seriously look at dealing Jeremy Accardo, while his value is through the roof, with a Healthy BJ Ryan and Brandon League expected to start the season next year.

[JiriHrdina]

Totally off topic but there a really good baseball documentary out there that traces a bunch of prospects for a season in the minors - Scutaro is one of the 3 primary guys profiles.

"A Player to be Named Later" is the film - tough to find - you can get it on zip.ca though. Great movie for baseball fans.

A great inside look at what happens at the minor leagues - and Scutaro was a very likeable guy

[JayP]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

'A lot of MLB players' sounds like a lot of BS.

How much do you think unestablished players in MLB go for? Look at the Josh Beckett deal if you want a gauge on how much prospects are really worth, keep into consideration that Mike Lowell was considered Washed up at the time, and therefore had to be taken as "tax" on the deal. Florida got Hanley Rameriz (Boston's best prospect at the time, and much more regarded than Wood) and another stud pitching Prospect Anabel Sanchez, who threw a no hitter 2 seasons ago.

A possible future star like Brandon Wood probably wouldn't be cheap, but if it gives the Jays a legitimate shot of having a very good starting SS for the next 5 years, why wouldn't you be interested in say dealing from a position of strength (the bullpen) for a guy like him?

The Jays should seriously look at dealing Jeremy Accardo, while his value is through the roof, with a Healthy BJ Ryan and Brandon League expected to start the season next year.

That was a mistype - I don't know why I wrote "a lot", but I was just trying to say we're going to have to give up major league talent to get those sorts of guys.

Like I said before though, for a team that wants to win now isn't trading proven MLB talent for potential MLB talent counter-productive? Either way, the only place the Jays have a ton of depth in is the bullpen and the Angels don't need any help there. The Rays are in the AL East so I highly doubt they want to trade potential star SS's with-in the division.

Trading Accardo is a risk, but probably a good one to take. I'm not a huge fan of his, but his value is definitely high. The risk is that Brandon League clearly wasn't the same player last year. Hopefully this year they straighten out his training routine. I'd welcome an Accardo deal though - even if League can't cut it as the set-up guy, Janssen is always there to take his place.

[CrispyGriz]

A little off topic and pardon my ignorance in this, but what does OBP stand for and how is it measured?

on a side note, i have been trying to figure out what WHIP measures as well with no luck. Anyone able to clear this up?

Thanks in advance

[JiriHrdina]

OBP - On-base Percentage
WHIP - Walks/Hits per Inning Pitched.

[CrispyGriz]

so apparently i cant look at a post and properly transfer 3 letters without actually copying and pasting, I meant to ask what OPS was

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by JayP

I'd say getting a .704 career OPS SS is solid upgrade over McDonald's career OPS of .595.

It's not like the Jays didn't need infield depth anyways. Scutaro is a HUGE upgrade over the utility guys the Jays had last season.

Scutaro is miles better than Jason Smith, Howie Clark, and Ray Almedo.

Will definitely increase run production and be a consistent player who can hopefully push macdonald to be a better batter.

I was hoping the jays would land a better infielder but this will help.