Tough Guys and Lazy Police

[urban1]

No.

Go out to a club. Have fun. Have 3 beers. Stay till close.

You get assaulted by a drunk, call the cops and the cops will listen to you.

Have 8 beers, 14 beers, or more, and you get your ass kicked, jaw broken, and eyes swollen shut, and your drunk and mumbling to the cops... then yeah... chances are things wont go past questioning the other guy while your laying in the hospital.

Like it or not, theres different rules at 3am. And usually cops are smart enough to understand how things work on the street.

Back to the post of the OP. A sober girl with no mouth who is minding her own business wouldnt get punched at 3am. TRUTH. It doesnt mean that a mouthy girl should get punched out by a guy but it doesnt mean that an innocent girl who was minding her own business got assaulted.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

So the answer to my question "does the fact that I've been drinking give a guy a free pass to assault me" appears to be "yes".

I don't know if I'm too fond of that answer. It doesn't apply to other crimes, does it?

Me: Officer, that guy just mugged me. He's wearing my watch and he has my wallet.
Other Guy: No I didn't.
Officer: Ah, I don't know who to believe, why don't you all go home.
Me: But he mugged me. Look at this lump on my head!
Officer: Get out of here or I'm arresting you.

[Flash Walken]

None of this would've happened if your girlfriend carried a piece.

Just sayin'.

[ken0042]

OT- but question for you Urban- is there any reason you put your post above the quotation? Just saying it makes it hard to figure out where you are going with it when the post you are responding to is quoted below your post.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

None of this would've happened if your girlfriend carried a piece.

Just sayin'.

Ha. Yeah. She'll have some pepper spray before next weekend. Seriously, does anybody know where I can get that stuff?

Urban, the point is the cop didn't question anybody, didn't make any attempt to figure out what had happened. He just said "these things happen all the time..." There were a few witnesses around. If the cops put any effort into it things could have been resolved quite easily.
My girlfriend wasn't hammerred, she had been at a little kid Halloween party until 10:30 last night before she even had a drink. She was at the bar for about 2-3 hours after that and had about 6 drinks. Trust me, she can drink a lot more than that and still be fine. No doubt she was mouthing these dudes off, along with the girls they were with, but mouthing off is not illegal. Hitting people is. Hitting girls is not more illegal than hitting guys, but you'd think that the social attitude towards hitting a girl would have made it at least worth the time for the police to walk a half of a block and look in to things. If the police got to that scene and talked to people and decided my girlfriend was at fault, or her group was, or that there was nothing that they should be doing about it I could be more respectful of their actions. They didn't do anything though. That's the problem.

Oh well, perhaps I'll use that cop's reasoning as an excuse to not try to catch a cab in this city. People drink and drive all the time.

[Crazy Flamer]

Lifer,

Wow, that story just boils my blood. I swear if anyone laid a hand on my girlfriend I would kick them in the nuts so hard they would be regirgitating their testes for the next week.

Seriously, if you need an extra hand to help go kick some ass, I'm in. Hope things are well for you otherwise.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by urban1

No.
You get assaulted by a drunk, call the cops and the cops will listen to you.

Have 8 beers, 14 beers, or more, and you get your ass kicked, jaw broken, and eyes swollen shut, and your drunk and mumbling to the cops... then yeah... chances are things wont go past questioning the other guy while your laying in the hospital.

Those two options are mutually exclusive.

If I get assaulted (by a drunk or anyone else) and I'm drunk, you are saying that the police won't do anything beyond questioning the guy who did it to me.

Why?

If some guy breaks my nose and sends me to the hospital, I guarantee it ain't because of anything I did. I haven't started a fight since I was 8 years old and I've never been in a fight in a bar. I think people who do start fights are losers.

And now I'm wondering if maybe we see so many losers starting fights because their aren't any legal repercussions for assaulting people, as long as you do it in the right environment.

[blankall]

The truth is in this situation is that unless there were witnesses willing to testify that one party was totally at fault or the girls had been badly beaten (ie more than just a small bruise), it would be totally impossible to prosecute. The guys could always claim that the girls had made some kind of threat or pushed their girlfriends first. In which case they do have the legal right to step in. Regardless of what happened from the cops perspective things had subsided and they didn't have to worry about anything anymore.

Yes it sucks, but there is nothing you can really do about it.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by blankall

The truth is in this situation is that unless there were witnesses willing to testify that one party was totally at fault or the girls had been badly beaten (ie more than just a small bruise), it would be totally impossible to prosecute. The guys could always claim that the girls had made some kind of threat or pushed their girlfriends first. In which case they do have the legal right to step in. Regardless of what happened from the cops perspective things had subsided and they didn't have to worry about anything anymore.

Yes it sucks, but there is nothing you can really do about it.

People lie all the time about the crimes they've committed but they still get prosecuted.

If some guy robs the liquor store and gets nailed he doesn't get to walk away if he says "nope, wasn't me".

If I beat the crap out of some guy on the street there should be some consequences, even if he is drunk and it is 3 in the morning.

[ken0042]

In the "info too late" category............

Whenever I have to deal with anybody in the service industry, be it police or the cable guy, if they aren't doing the job I expect them to then I ask for their name. Police have it written on their chest on a name badge. The best way for her to have dealt with it at the time was to take down his name, and mention that she is taking down his name because she plans on following up in the morning.

In that case, the cop either would have done a little more; or your g/f would have a chance at making a complaint.

One more thing to keep in mind- as I said earlier she didn't come out and tell you about this right away. Even if she had; one of the most important things for us guys to keep in mind when a woman tells us about a problem- many times they are not looking a solution. They are meerly looking to vent.

Just saying to make sure all this effort you are putting into this is something she wants.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

Lifer,

Wow, that story just boils my blood. I swear if anyone laid a hand on my girlfriend I would kick them in the nuts so hard they would be regirgitating their testes for the next week.

Seriously, if you need an extra hand to help go kick some ass, I'm in. Hope things are well for you otherwise.

Thanks. As tempting as it would be to try to find the guys involved and see how they do against somebody with a pair of balls, it realistically wouldn't happen. If I was there, in the heat of the moment I would have gone ballistic. Now, considering all the options I'd rather have the police take care of it. I can't afford assault charges of my own.
Other than that, things are well for me. I hope you're doing good too.

A little update. Her face is fine. It was just a little red welt last night and early this morning. There is nothing there now. There is no damage, and given the circumstances I'm not sure how far my girlfriend will want to pursue this. The other girl that was assaulted has brused and scraped legs and won't be wearing a skirt for a while...unless we head up to Edmonton. The guy who tried to help them out does have a broken nose. My main reason in posting this thread was to see if there was any way we could file a complaint or ask for an inquiry into it from the CPS. The secondary reason is that I was operating at a slow boil and I just wanted to vent my story and see what kind of reaction this type of crap would get from people on here. Of course I also had a slight hope that somebody would say they knew some people who match the description.
Thanks everybody for the help and suggestions. If this happens again the guy will be getting pepper sprayed. (so be careful if you're harrassing a little blonde canucks fan at the saddledome, she might have an itchy trigger finger after last night).

[BlackArcher101]

Is pepper spray legal to carry around and use? I had thought it wasn't. Same as tasers.

I recommend a self-defense class. It would probably go a longer way than a quick fix like pepper spray.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

People lie all the time about the crimes they've committed but they still get prosecuted.

If some guy robs the liquor store and gets nailed he doesn't get to walk away if he says "nope, wasn't me".

If I beat the crap out of some guy on the street there should be some consequences, even if he is drunk and it is 3 in the morning.

Well what you need in a he said/ she said scenario is corroborating evidence. All those scenarios you describe also show corroborating evidence. I think the best hope for this case is to get the guy with the broken nose to go to the police. Assuming he is an independent party to the girlfriend and the friend you may actually have a case of some kind. But once again there is always the self defence argument, which would not be overly difficult to prove in this case, but would probably depend a lot on demeanor of the witnesses.

Sounds like a very unfortunate incident.

1) You can contact police via their non-emergency line and ask for the number for 'Professional Standards'. Official complaints must be done in writing (but they will relay all the info to you).

2) Reality. I am willing to bet, the TRUTH of what happened lies somewhere in between. Personally, I am of the view that you assume some sort of risk when you go down to bars. Like it or not, that is REALITY. There is simply too much happening down there for police to follow through, immediately, with every assault, unwanted guest, drunk, crackhead, pimp, etc, etc (although see below #3). It's simply impossible. Don't like it? Call your MLA.

3) 10000 person pub crawl last night. Unfortunately, thats far, far too many people to conduct a thorough investigation. That said, she should have been offered some advise on how to pursue things when she sobered up/got home (and im willing to bet she was).

4) Pepper Spray/Tasers are prohibited weapons. Use them at your own peril.

5) Someone mentioned laying an 'information'. Pretty tough to do w/o a suspect.

6) The bar pay duty program was suspended.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Me: <drunk and staggering>.Officer, that guy just mugged me. He's wearing my watch and he has my wallet.
Other Guy: No I didn't. He's super wasted and this stuff is mine.
Officer: Ah, I don't know who to believe, lemme see the wallet <gets wallet>. This wallet is empty save for a fin. How do I know it's yours?
Me: <Still drunk>. Because I f*&kin told you, you stupid pig. But he mugged me. It IS my wallet. Look at this lump on my head!
Other Guy: I just saw him fall over drunk. He musta hit his head then.
Officer: How do I know this is your watch?
Me: My watch is a Timex with a black strap.
Officer: Well, ya, it is a Timex with a black strap. I am wearing one too.
Me: This is bu%#sh$t. You're just too f%^kin lazy to do your job. And I'm not drunk!!! PIG!
Officer: Get out of here or I'm arresting you.

Fixed.

OK OK... its a little out there, but you get the point.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Fixed.

OK OK... its a little out there, but you get the point.

No, I don't get the point.

I would never talk to a cop like that no matter how drunk I was and if I did I'd expect and deserve a night in the tank at least.

I like to go out and have a good time. I don't start any trouble,ever, and I can hold my liquor pretty good. I think the police should take it seriously if some moron attacks me, even if I am drunk.

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by urban1

Back to the post of the OP. A sober girl with no mouth who is minding her own business wouldnt get punched at 3am. TRUTH.

How the fart doo you know? Have you been to a bar before? I knew a sober girl with no mouth who was grabbed, thrown in a van and raped for god's sake. There is no TRUTH to what you are saying whatsoever.

Innocent girls don't get assaulted? Ever? Really?

EDIT: This whole thread has me kinda confused to be honest. Maybe it's cause I'm from a smaller city or something but if I go out and get hammered that doesn't give anyone any right to assault/harass/mug/whatever me. If I'm talkin' s**t to strangers, maybe I'm askin for it, but that still doesn't excuse them for assaulting me, and I would hope the friggin' police of all people would see that as well. I would hope that even IF they see it fit to throw me in the drunk tank that they would still pursue action against the person who assaulted me.

EDIT AGAIN: I also fail to see how hitting a girl is EVER self defense... unless she's carrying a gun/knife.

[soulchoice]

If the cop was in full uniform, he was not there as a paid employee of the club. He would have been on duty. Clubs or bars are no longer able to hire a cop to patrol the club while he is in uniform. He would have been on his required shift for the Police service.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

If the cop was in full uniform, he was not there as a paid employee of the club. He would have been on duty. Clubs or bars are no longer able to hire a cop to patrol the club while he is in uniform. He would have been on his required shift for the Police service.

So these two cops were probably just lazy then. Great to see taxpayers money at work. Why doesn't the city just put a uniform on a manican and put that outside the night clubs?

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

No, I don't get the point.

I would never talk to a cop like that no matter how drunk I was and if I did I'd expect and deserve a night in the tank at least.

I like to go out and have a good time. I don't start any trouble,ever, and I can hold my liquor pretty good. I think the police should take it seriously if some moron attacks me, even if I am drunk.

My point was, the vast majority, in a 3 AM bar setting are like that. Thus it isn't always rainbows and bubblegum.

In addition, there would certainly be credibility issues in court when you are wasted outta your tree.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

My point was, the vast majority, in a 3 AM bar setting are like that. Thus it isn't always rainbows and bubblegum.

Don't you see a problem with that? I certainly do. Just because it's late and some people are drinking doesn't excuse the police from their duties.