Taliban Hang 15yo For Carrying U.S. Bills

[Lanny_MacDonald]

I think that we too easily over-look the gruesome and obscene in our own society, but are very ready to jump on those same situations in other cultures. What gives our society the right to claim the moral high ground over another?

While it is terrible to have someone killed for carrying the wrong type of currency, you must consider the situation. This is a country at war, and carrying American currency could very well be a sign of dealing with the enemy and taking money for information. What would happen if an American soldier was discovered with a bunch of Iranian currency on him? I think the "rendition" of his story would be quite "extreme" as well. He'd probably be better off dead.

The Taliban are certainly carrying out an organized theologically based terror campaign, and go to extremes to make their points (as does Islam itself in many ways), but I wonder where all this indignation and outrage was when a pizza joint in Dallas was "stoned" by the nation for taking "pesos" as payment for their products? Is an organized economic terror campaign not as wrong a similar theologic campaign? Just floating that out there for conjecture.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Roll your eyes all you want, the middle east hardly has a monopoly on killing people over trivial things.

It's one thing to have a random act of violence, it's quite another to have sanctioned killings in the name of religious beliefs or politics.

That kid in Queensland was killed randomly - completely different that being publically stoned to death because youre dating someone from another faith or being publically hung because you were carrying US bills.

[Resolute 14]

I think that is nothing more than a moral superiority complex.

While the situation behind the killings are different, how can we sit here and claim to be more enlightened when we are killing eachother for no reason at all?

All examples are nothing more than heinous crimes of depravity commited by one person on another. The reasoning behind all of them are just excuses.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

I think that we too easily over-look the gruesome and obscene in our own society, but are very ready to jump on those same situations in other cultures. What gives our society the right to claim the moral high ground over another?

Granted, but for the most part, to me the crimes in other societies might be based around crimes of passion or emotion, or economic gain. The crimes that we hear about there are based around theology, an honor code, or intimidational education of a larger group. In restrospect, the thing that makes western society cringe is that these crimes sometimes seem to be sanctioned by a larger body (honor killings upheld by the courts, terrorist killings by a larger percentage of the population)

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

While it is terrible to have someone killed for carrying the wrong type of currency, you must consider the situation. This is a country at war, and carrying American currency could very well be a sign of dealing with the enemy and taking money for information. What would happen if an American soldier was discovered with a bunch of Iranian currency on him? I think the "rendition" of his story would be quite "extreme" as well. He'd probably be better off dead.

A bad example probably, however that American Soldier carrying Iranian currency would be afforded due process, appeals, etc. In the case of the killing that we are talking about here, they just killed him.

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

The Taliban are certainly carrying out an organized theologically based terror campaign, and go to extremes to make their points (as does Islam itself in many ways), but I wonder where all this indignation and outrage was when a pizza joint in Dallas was "stoned" by the nation for taking "pesos" as payment for their products? Is an organized economic terror campaign not as wrong a similar theologic campaign? Just floating that out there for conjecture.

I don't disagree with you neccessarily, however what makes the difference to me is the level of extremes, and thats what makes society cringe on a whole. The Pizza joint was stormed by protestors and thats a terrible crime, however the Taliban members took this kid, stuffed money in his mouth and hung him to encourage others. I think there's a vast difference.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

I think that is nothing more than a moral superiority complex.

While the situation behind the killings are different, how can we sit here and claim to be more enlightened when we are killing eachother for no reason at all?

All examples are nothing more than heinous crimes of depravity commited by one person on another. The reasoning behind all of them are just excuses.

I disagree completely. The barbaric acts of public hangings to instill fear in the public for trivial things such as a woman showing her ankle in public, are far from just "excuses".

Random acts of violence are an unavoidable occurrence across cultures. However, uncivilized behavior like hanging a 15 year old boy for carrying US bills in the name of religion or politics is found in the sectors of the world were there is no civil order, where the people are oppressed and where societal advancement is halted by the powerful few in the name of some "Allah" or other relgious being.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

I think that we too easily over-look the gruesome and obscene in our own society, but are very ready to jump on those same situations in other cultures. What gives our society the right to claim the moral high ground over another?

While it is terrible to have someone killed for carrying the wrong type of currency, you must consider the situation. This is a country at war, and carrying American currency could very well be a sign of dealing with the enemy and taking money for information. What would happen if an American soldier was discovered with a bunch of Iranian currency on him? I think the "rendition" of his story would be quite "extreme" as well. He'd probably be better off dead.

The Taliban are certainly carrying out an organized theologically based terror campaign, and go to extremes to make their points (as does Islam itself in many ways), but I wonder where all this indignation and outrage was when a pizza joint in Dallas was "stoned" by the nation for taking "pesos" as payment for their products? Is an organized economic terror campaign not as wrong a similar theologic campaign? Just floating that out there for conjecture.

Ah yes the moral equivalency police right on cue, spoken from high up in their ivory tower. Thou should not judge less ye be judged. Thou without sin cast the first stone. Sounds like something Jesus would say, would it not?

[mykalberta]

Oh no the world is coming to an end, someone was killed for a petty reason in a Radical Muslim country

This shouldnt even be news over here. If people are willing to live in that situation then let them live in it. Freedom is deserved by those who fight for it, not but those who wish to barter a deal with the horsemen of hate.

[Ayrahb]

Didn't the Taliban torture and kill a 16-year old Somali boy who tried to steal food from their camp? Oh, wait...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ayrahb

Didn't the Taliban torture and kill a 16-year old Somali boy who tried to steal food from their camp? Oh, wait...

Yup. and what was the literal cost of that action (I'm assuming your talking about the Airbourne tragedy).

Every member of that unit was severly punished (Everything from a dishonourable discharge to prison time), the unit itself which had a long and glorious history was disbanded. Canadian Society as a whole, and the government and the heads of the military were repulsed and enranged by the incident.

Totally different scenario and a bad example IMHO.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

This shouldnt even be news over here. If people are willing to live in that situation then let them live in it. Freedom is deserved by those who fight for it, not but those who wish to barter a deal with the horsemen of hate.

You seriously think its their fault that they were 'born' there?

There are a lot of people in Afghanistan fighting for their 'freedom'...its a slow process.

[Ayrahb]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Every member of that unit was severly punished (Everything from a dishonourable discharge to prison time), the unit itself which had a long and glorious history was disbanded. Canadian Society as a whole, and the government and the heads of the military were repulsed and enranged by the incident.

Dishonourable discharge for torturing several people and murdering Arone. Five years in jail for manslaughter. Those are not what I consider severe penalties for war crimes and damaging the whole military's reputation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ayrahb

Dishonourable discharge for torturing several people and murdering Arone. Five years in jail for manslaughter. Those are not what I consider severe penalties for war crimes and damaging the whole military's reputation.

Then blame the sentences on the definitions in the justice system. Manslaughter will usually get you five years. Unless your stating that military justice should be harsher then civilian justice. The main culprit would have probably gotten a much longer term (Matchee sp?) except that he attempted suicide, brain damaged himself severly and was procluded from standing trial.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

If people are willing to live in that situation then let them live in it.

I think most of them live in that situation not because they are willing to, but because they have no other choice. You don't think most of them would move to a 1st world country if they had the means and opportunity?

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Freedom is deserved by those who fight for it, not but those who wish to barter a deal with the horsemen of hate.

Did you fight for your freedom? Most of us here, me included, have had our freedom handed to us on a silver platter. Do we not derserve it then?

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by WessThompson

and so many folks (including many on this forum) wonder what the hell we are doing in Afghanistan...

Yes, there are many people who are questioning what we are doing in Afghanistan, and with good reason.

Initially, Chretien told Canadians that we would join the US led war in a support and peacekeeping role; something that is generally consistent with Canadian foreign policy up to that point.

The problem with this was that the American ‘war’ was not legal or sanctioned in either international or American law. The UN Security Council had declined to give Bush legal recourse to pursue his war on two occasions, saying that the September 11 attacks had been “terrorist attacks” and not the attacks of one State on another State.

Additionally, the United States Congress has never given Bush a formal, legal declaration of war in Afghanistan, instead granting him only a limited “War Powers Resolution” (which he has exceeded anyway).

So the problem with Canada going into Afghanistan in the first place was that they were joining an illegal “war of aggression”. In short, Canadian soldiers were part of an invasion.

Then Martin expanded Canada’s role in an illegal war from support and peacekeeping to combat as the United States wished to withdraw troops in order to invade Iraq.

Harper has continued to expand this role with 2 justifications:
1. 9-11 was an attack on Canada and we just fight global terrorism in order to protect our domestic interests.
2. We must fight the Taliban in order to bring democracy to the Afghan people (this is the justification that seems to be raised by this thread).

This justification is rife with problems and is not as self-evident as you have implied in your post.

First, the previous government in Afghanistan was ousted in the US led war of aggression and replaced by an American-supported, and American-friendly ‘puppet government’. This government is led by a man with former ties to the Taliban and to US oil concerns.

This puppet government is made up of many of the legislators from the former government. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have estimated that 60% of the legislators in this government have ties to the former Taliban. They further estimate that 20 legislators control private militias used against Afghan citizens and to support their illegal activities in the drug trade.

The US and Canadian forces are primarily engaged in supporting this government and in fighting against those that oppose it. This is what we are doing in Afghanistan, supporting a government that does not support its own citizens and is not working for the betterment of its own country.

The UN Human development index STILL rates Afghanistan 175th out of 177 countries. This is a country where the life expectancy is still 45 years. A country where there is 40% unemployment, a country where 700 children die every day from a lack of adequate health care. So if conditions have not changed under the government and are not showing any signs of changing, why are we still involved in risking the lives of Canadian soldiers to fight an illegal war?

So please tell me, what are we doing in Afghanistan?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Ah yes the moral equivalency police right on cue, spoken from high up in their ivory tower. Thou should not judge less ye be judged. Thou without sin cast the first stone. Sounds like something Jesus would say, would it not?

Holy contradiction. There I am saying we shouldn't be judgemental based on cultual relativism, and then you jump on me, saying I live in an ivory tower, and then extend the situation with WWJD? Wow.