Man sentenced to 421 years for abducting girl whose text message saved her

[Dion]

Originally Posted by IntenseFan

I think perhaps what's even more offensive than the existence of such a "prison" is the fact that we all as Canadians pay for it.

###!

Three square meals a day...

Free education.....

Gymnasiums, golf course, fishing, etc.....

We treat our prisoners better than we treat the homeless, people on disabilities, or those living on the street with mental illnesses.

Prison should not be a country club atmosphere.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Do you really believe that all these criminals will never get rehabilitated? That unless they are locked up forever or executed they are destined to re-offend? Of course the media loves to cover the horror stories of violent criminals re-offending. But there is not many stories about a criminal who never went on to re-offend and lived a normal life. Is that because they aren't very "news worthy" or because the majority of these criminals are re-offending? I kinda doubt the latter.

No, I don't believe all of them will never get rehabilitated, but I do believe some are more dangerous than others. A quick look at recidivism rate studies such as this:

http://www.csom.org/pubs/recidsexof.html

has varying results depending on time frame, and types of crime. The highest rate shown was around 50% over 25 years I think. I fully admit to not having the attention span to parse the statistics right now.

However, the 'dangerous offenders', and I believe this man would fall in that category, need more extreme punishments. Granted it is pointless as Fotze shows us to make a distinction between 400 years and 4000 years. The fact that there is no chance of him ever seeing the light of day is a little comforting. It should also be noted that, IMO, this man would have been a murderer as well as a child molester had this been allowed to progress much further.

The girl beat her death sentence, now she only serves life with very brutal mental scars. Only one of them deserves the second chance in my eyes, but I guess I am barbaric.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It always astounds me how many people see jail as a means of punishment only. I know I'm putting myself in a dangerous position because of the crime that is the topic of this thread, but I'm intending to be a little OT and respond primarily to the trend on CP of having news articles posted about horrible acts, which then spur long threads about how the person deserves a fate worse than death. Many jump on a rage filled band wagon complete with flaming torches and assert that the worst physical punishment possible is deserved by the guilty party.

Now let me say again, I am in no way taking a position on the current case where I am aiming to defend this guy. It just seems to me that considering the prison system only/primarily as a system of punishment(which is what I get the impression many posters seem to be looking for) is terribly short sighted and somewhat despicable. Prison as a punishment seems to me to serve no valuable end beyond satisfaction of a drive for revenge. The only long term solution is rehabilitation, which is typically not served by punishment, although punishment may accompany the process of rehabilitation. If a person can't be rehabilitated, then by all means keep them entirely separated from society, either by incarceration or death (the problem with death being the wrongfully convicted), but to hope expressly for the infliction of horrible punishments is a tad sadistic.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular. I'm just bringing this up because of the violent trend that seems to develop in these threads, but to those people who do see it only as punishment and embrace the violence, I would say "Grow up, and quit thinking like a lesser primate".

*braces for responses*

I almost completely agree with you. Except that in the case of child molesters they aren't ever going to be rehabilitated - the nature of their offense is a sexual compulsion. They won't be able to unlearn that sort of thing.

My bottom line is a lot harsher than yours. While we both agree they need to be removed from society, my opinion is that if they are still breathing, there is a chance they could get back out into society. I'd rather have them in the ground. It doesn't have to be a sadistic death, just a state guarantee that they will never be able to reoffend.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Except that in the case of child molesters they aren't ever going to be rehabilitated - the nature of their offense is a sexual compulsion. They won't be able to unlearn that sort of thing.

My bottom line is a lot harsher than yours. While we both agree they need to be removed from society, my opinion is that if they are still breathing, there is a chance they could get back out into society. I'd rather have them in the ground. It doesn't have to be a sadistic death, just a state guarantee that they will never be able to reoffend.

If you accept that a person may be born irrevocably evil it begs the question: is it right to kill a man who cannot help what he is?

Then consider, if genetic mapping were ever to get to the point that we could identify such people as soon as their DNA was available for analysis, would it be right to kill the baby (or the foetus) before it has a chance to offend? Would it be right to put the child in jail at the age of 12, when he is just developing secondary sexual characteristics and a sex drive?

After all, an ounce of prevention...

[transplant99]

It just seems to me that considering the prison system only/primarily as a system of punishment(which is what I get the impression many posters seem to be looking for) is terribly short sighted and somewhat despicable

Or...it keeps goofballs like this clown AWAY from innocent people...but who would want that....the despicable people i suppose.

Prison as a punishment seems to me to serve no valuable end beyond satisfaction of a drive for revenge

What?.....or again....keeps dipcraps like this loser from offending people ever again...what part of this are you not getting?

The only long term solution is rehabilitation, which is typically not served by punishment, although punishment may accompany the process of rehabilitation

OR.....maybe just not allowing him to offend again...could that not be a solution?

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular. I'm just bringing this up because of the violent trend that seems to develop in these threads, but to those people who do see it only as punishment and embrace the violence, I would say "Grow up, and quit thinking like a lesser primate".

The "violence" has already occurred....against someone who had done NOTHING wrong. Prison is all about keeping law abiding citizens free of these low-lifes...of course this is coming from a "mouth-breathing lesser primate".

Unbelievable.

[burn_this_city]

I love the responses telling us to grow up.. IMO thats a product of a complete lack of perspective. Unfortunately no matter how much sunshine and good intentions you throw at them. There will still be people out there who will do whatever they want regardless.. These people don't deserve our pity and respect, they steal from the innocent. That man stole something from that girl that she will never get back. She will live the rest of her life with the horror she experienced. Lets just Shoot, shovel, and stfu instead of rehabilitating people who dont deserve the air they breath...

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Or...it keeps goofballs like this clown AWAY from innocent people...but who would want that....the despicable people i suppose.



What?.....or again....keeps dipcraps like this loser from offending people ever again...what part of this are you not getting?



OR.....maybe just not allowing him to offend again...could that not be a solution?





The "violence" has already occurred....against someone who had done NOTHING wrong. Prison is all about keeping law abiding citizens free of these low-lifes...of course this is coming from a "mouth-breathing lesser primate".

Unbelievable.

You seem to have missed my point. I agree that people who are not safe should be separated from everybody else. I disagree that prison should be primarily punitive.
You're right that the violence has already occurred. Nobody can change that, so sights should be set on preventing further violence. I don't believe that simple punishment is likely to result in a convict coming out of prison much better off than they went in. I never said that punishment has no place, but that it should come secondary to rehabilitation.
Those that can't be rehabilitated need to be dealt with differently.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

My bottom line is a lot harsher than yours. While we both agree they need to be removed from society, my opinion is that if they are still breathing, there is a chance they could get back out into society. I'd rather have them in the ground. It doesn't have to be a sadistic death, just a state guarantee that they will never be able to reoffend.

The big problem with the death penalty is the problem of those who are wrongfully put to it. There's no going back for someone proven innocent after they've been put to death. The Innocence Project in the states has used DNA evidence to free hundreds of death row inmates who were going to be killed unjustly.
I suppose it's a matter of balancing the value of permanent removal of some known threats from society against the judicial system wrongfully killing innocents. The judicial system just isn't perfect.

[Ford Prefect]

My neighbour is a fairly high-ranking Corrections Canada officer ... and he's told me some really interesting stuff about the whole system. First of all, I have to say that I have a lot of respect, admiration and sympathy for rank and file Corrections workers ... they're doing their best under some difficult circumstances. Those difficult circumstances often stem from their being handicapped at doing their jobs by their superiors at the top of the food chain in Ottawa.

As far as prison being either a punishment or a rehabilitative vehicle, I have to seriously question whether it is either. From what my neighbour has said, the majority of repeat offenders for crimes like theft, drug tafficiking, fraud, etc., re-offend as soon as they have served their sentences because they don't want to be free and part of society. They want to go back to prison. Taken in that light, it doesn't sound like prison is either a punishment or rehabilitative. According to my neighbour, on the outside they feel they are nothing but ex-cons with very poor prospects of getting ahead and no tools for doing so. On the inside however, they are in their own element and they have social status among their peers ... in short, they are part of a community where they feel they belong.

I'm not sure what the implications of this are. We have a prison system that the inmates feel more at home in and secure in than they do as free members of society, and a society that doesn't feel like these ex-cons are a safe component of society. Does this mean the the prison system is too accommodating, or does it mean that society is not accommodating enough? Or is there really much emphasis on rehab in the prison system, or is the system so over-crowded and handcuffed that the prime objective is just to process the convicts through, let them serve their sentence, and move them out to make room for new inmates?

I don't have answers to these questions, but it seems clear to me that the system is failing everyone ... the convicts, victims and society.

As for the guy who is the topic of this thread, it's difficult to see how Canada's Corrections system would work for such a criminal. He's not getting the rehab he needs with the system the way it is, if he is indeed rehabilitatable in the first place. And sending him back out to re-offend certainly isn't working for victims and society. Clearly, the system is broken, but those in charge of fixing it seem more pre-occupied with politics than creating an effective corrections system.