Speeding Ticket Question

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Dion

I could be wrong, but when I read this quote I assumed reductions were not allowed.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...ic-ticket.html

"Demerit points are an important part of highway safety," said David Dear, spokesman for Alberta Justice.

"It's a way of removing bad drivers from the road, ultimately, and we don't think you should be allowed to avoid those when we can prove that you were at the wheel."

Total reduction of demerits is not allowed for a first appearance, prosecutor level. However, if one is prepared to go to the court stage, total reduction of demerits and fine reduction is still possible.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Total reduction of demerits is not allowed for a first appearance, prosecutor level. However, if one is prepared to go to the court stage, total reduction of demerits and fine reduction is still possible.

Did you read this part? Seems cut and dry to me.

Albertans hit with traffic tickets will no longer be able to bargain their way out of the demerit points that can lead to driver's licence suspensions and costlier insurance.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by Dion

Did you read this part? Seems cut and dry to me.

Albertans hit with traffic tickets will no longer be able to bargain their way out of the demerit points that can lead to driver's licence suspensions and costlier insurance.

The prosecutor cannot because they been the policy set by Alberta Justices don't allow it anymore, demerit points and fines are set by the Alberta Transportation Board which I believe derives it authority from the Alberta Traffic Safety Act. This means the Judge has the right to specify what is an appropriate punishment is for each case.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The prosecutor cannot because they been the policy set by Alberta Justices don't allow it anymore, demerit points and fines are set by the Alberta Transportation Board which I believe derives it authority from the Alberta Traffic Safety Act. This means the Judge has the right to specify what is an appropriate punishment is for each case.

I see your point regarding judges.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

In my opinion, fight it. If this is new to you, it may seem difficult, but in reality, its easy. I fight every ticket, no matter what the circumstances are, justified or not.

I would give contrary advice. Like I said earlier- if it comes up you were doing 30 over and the cop already reduced it, you could be faced with the greater offence.

I also don't understand why somebody would advocate fighting every ticket. It bogs the system down; which causes a chain reaction that eats away at our quality of life. You said earlier you hope "this doesnt turn into one of those "own up to it and pay the fine" threads." Well, you cannot ask for that, then give a contrary opinion and expect to not be challenged on it.

Berger- don't be a burden on the system. You sped, so pay the ticket. And be more careful in the future. I speed; and when I get tickets I pay them.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would give contrary advice. Like I said earlier- if it comes up you were doing 30 over and the cop already reduced it, you could be faced with the greater offence.

I also don't understand why somebody would advocate fighting every ticket. It bogs the system down; which causes a chain reaction that eats away at our quality of life. You said earlier you hope "this doesnt turn into one of those "own up to it and pay the fine" threads." Well, you cannot ask for that, then give a contrary opinion and expect to not be challenged on it.

Berger- don't be a burden on the system. You sped, so pay the ticket. And be more careful in the future. I speed; and when I get tickets I pay them.

Its not that I am concerned with being challenged on it Ken, as no ones opinion will change my views on fighting a ticket. I hoped it would not turn into a "own up to it and pay the fine" thread, as from my assumption, it seems as if he was planning to fight the fine already. So in essence seeking advice on whether he stood a chance or not. Didnt seem to me like he was asking others on whether it is morally right or wrong to fight the ticket.

Never once did i read in any of his posts was he seeking whether he is right or wrong to fight it. But merely seeking advice on what options he had and what to expect if when he does try and oppose the ticket.

[ken0042]

So, by your reasoning, if a buddy had an affair.... but the affair is over and she moved to another country...... and he was asking you if he should tell his wife over dinner or later on in the evening..... you wouldn't feel it your place to suggest that he might not tell her?

What I'm trying to say is this is a public discussion forum; not a question and answer forum.

[Jayems]

Ok, well, I spoke to my cop friend, and she says that it is NOT necessary for a cop to write the postal code.

On the discussion of demerits, I had a ticket out near Cochrane, and the guy I spoke with didn't even let me say 1 word before he said "I'll knock the fine and demerits in half". DEAL!.

So why can he do it, but others can't? I'm not sure going to a judge in a packed court room is easy for me... I prefer the 1-on-1 with the guy.. but any tips? Just say "Yes, I was speeding.. please have mercy?" or go the fight it route... I think I may have a shot at that, but I'm sure if the cop shows up, he'll quash the argument, and I'll be stuck just wasting my time.

Like I said before, its not the money that is the big issue... this ticket may put me up to like 8 or 9 demerits...

This is bad considering for my first 10 years of driving, I never got a speeding ticket. I've now got 3 this year alone, including a RCMP failure to secure load ticket.. but that had no demerits thankfully. So 4 in one year, after 10 with nothing. BAH!

[tete]

Originally Posted by Berger_4_

so....i need some advice now....

got my first ever speeding ticket on the weekend...i was doing a buck thirty but he reduced it to 15 over....should i go to the courts and ask for a reduction in demerits (its a 2 demerit offense) or should i just say to hell with it....again, the 89 bucks isn't a big issue, its the fact that i have demerits, and an entire year yet before i no longer am under the gdl....

and if i do go to the courthouse, what do i do? how do i go talkt to the prosecuter or whatever?

I'll say what everyone else said - save your time. I wish I would have known that you couldn't get rid of the demerits completely when I got my first ever speeding ticket after nearly 15 years of clean driving this past year. After waiting an hour and a half to talk to the prosecutor, all I got was a reduction in fine. I have no issue with the ticket, I just wished that there could have been a bit more leniency for someone with a spotless record like mine. Oh well.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Jayems

On the discussion of demerits, I had a ticket out near Cochrane, and the guy I spoke with didn't even let me say 1 word before he said "I'll knock the fine and demerits in half". DEAL!.

So why can he do it, but others can't?

He probably just reduced the charge on the ticket from, say 30kmph over the limit to something less. The lesser charge carries fewer demerits and a lower fine. Technically, this is the same thing that the first appearance crown does. They don't reduce the fine/demerits per se but reduce the charge. Like murder to manslaugher.

[Gugstanley]

Holy desperation batman!!! Oh no the officer forgot the postal code. Who cares. If you did what you were cited for go and pay for it but don't go pissing off the judge over something that silly.
That is my opionion and I have been around the system down here for a long time.

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Berger- don't be a burden on the system. You sped, so pay the ticket. And be more careful in the future. I speed; and when I get tickets I pay them.

yeah, that was pretty well my line of thinking.

and i am damn careful to watch my speed now...kinda aggravating watching vans pass you on the highway but it's better than a ticket

[Cowboy89]

Once my buddy had a cop on the ticket check the box for youth court instead of adult court for whatever reason and that was good enough to get the whole thing rejected. Also further to Ken's "Don't fight the ticket if it's justified comment" the reason why you should fight is to remove the complacency from cops who catch people doing 8km/h over while hiding between pillars in a police motorcycle underneath Beddington Trail on Harvest Hills Blvd. Maybe if they were expected to justify themselves in front of a judge everytime they issued a ticket they would think twice about what they're pulling people over for. If Calgary wasn't such a police state with ticket quotas for cops and ticket money going right back into the police department then one wouldn't feel the need to argue a ticket they were obviously guilty for.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by Gugstanley

Holy desperation batman!!! Oh no the officer forgot the postal code. Who cares. If you did what you were cited for go and pay for it but don't go pissing off the judge over something that silly.
That is my opionion and I have been around the system down here for a long time.

Firstly, I care. Secondly, go back and read the entire thread. Especially the part where we talk about that one guy who always comes on and say "stop crying.. waaa." You'd see it isn't about money, you'd see its about demerits. And if you truly do work in the system, I'm sure you've had all your tickets "taken care of.." or is that just a generalization?

And in addition, you would have seen that fighting it in court would have been arguing the manner in which the cop supposedly singled my car out.... not the postal code issue. But why am I explaining this. If you read it, you'd know that.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Also further to Ken's "Don't fight the ticket if it's justified comment" the reason why you should fight is to remove the complacency from cops who catch people doing 8km/h over while hiding between pillars in a police motorcycle underneath Beddington Trail on Harvest Hills Blvd.

Ok, if you get a ticket for 8 km/h over on Deerfoot, then by all means fight it. I guess to clarify my position; I hate the fact that for me to fight a ticket costs me a day's wages- so I may as well just pay the dang thing. The reason it takes so long is because so many people fight the tickets. I also see this as part of a problem on the part of the Crown; they seem to be far to willing to deal just because somebody asks. It's like when I worked in a restaurant and we adopted a policy that any meal complaint meant a free meal. Within a little while we were giving away as much as we were selling; because the word got out.

My last ticket was 66 in a 50 zone. (non-residential.) I could have sworn it used to be a 60 zone, but didn't fight it. Mostly because I realized that technically I was in the wrong. That ticket was 6 years ago.

As for the comments about quotas; I find that hard to believe because most times I get pulled over I can talk my way out of the ticket. And don't get me wrong; I speed. I speed a lot. I just don't get caught. Not by using anything like a radar detector, but I make sure that when speeding I am being extra careful. Other than one multinova; I'm doing quite well with that.

Maybe if they were expected to justify themselves in front of a judge everytime they issued a ticket they would think twice about what they're pulling people over for.

Are you suggesting that we should have fewer police on the roads? There's already too many idiots on the road, if every ticket came with a court appearance, that would increase the time spent on a ticket from 15-30 minutes to a few hours. The flip side would be to pay for the extra officers we could raise the fines, but then we'd be talking about $600 for doing 15 over the limit. Would that be better?

Yep, getting tickets sucks. I know I was a little choked when I opened the mail and saw a picture of my car speeding alone. And it hurt a bit when I paid it.

Here's some more food for thought- what happens when the system gets so badly abused that we ar eno longer given the option to fight tickets? Think that can't happen? Well, there are caps on personal injury claims now because that was also being abused. It could happen with things like traffic tickets.

Once again, I'm not saying to never fight a ticket. Your 8 km/h example is one of a cop not following the spirit of the law. But not every ticket needs to be faught.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by ken0042

My last ticket was 66 in a 50 zone. (non-residential.) I could have sworn it used to be a 60 zone, but didn't fight it. Mostly because I realized that technically I was in the wrong. That ticket was 6 years ago.
.

haha, that was the worst thing about this ticket. I thought I was in a 110 zone of deerfoot, and was doing 11 under the limit. With mine, I realize I was probably speeding, but if the police can pull you over for making a mistake (speeding) then why can't I fight it when they make a mistake (postal code). Turns out, thats not a mistake. Oh well.

[fredr123]

Provincial Offences Procedure Regulation

The required elements on your violation ticket are listed in s. 13:

Violation ticket
13(1)A violation ticket under Part 2 of the Act must contain at least the following elements:
(a) the following heading:
Province of Alberta
(b) a reasonably clear description of the defendant to facilitate identification,
(c) the offence with which the defendant is charged,
(d) the date on which the offence is alleged to have occurred,
(e) the place at or near which the offence is alleged to have occurred,
(f) the manner in which the defendant may respond to the summons, and
(g) the consequences to the defendant if the summons is not responded to by the date indicated.
(2) A violation ticket under Part 3 of the Act must contain at least the following elements:
(a) the following heading:
Province of Alberta
(b) a reasonably clear description of the defendant to facilitate identification,
(c) the offence with which the defendant is charged,
(d) the date on which the offence is alleged to have occurred,
(e) the place at or near which the offence is alleged to have occurred,
(f) the manner in which the defendant may respond to the offence notice, and

(g) the consequences to the defendant if the offence notice is not responded to by the date indicated.

[KidCanada]

Hey guys, i got caught doing 114 in an 80, its my first speeding ticket and i was just wondering if it was worth going to the court date for?

From browsing this thread it seems i may be able to reduce the fine amount, but not the demerits. Given the amount i was over the limit is it likely ill be able to get my fine reduced, and what kind of reduction will this be? Or should i just pay it online? What sort of things might one say to the judge?

Thanks, really have no clue what im doing!

Originally Posted by ken0042

Once again, I'm not saying to never fight a ticket. Your 8 km/h example is one of a cop not following the spirit of the law. But not every ticket needs to be faught.

Interestingly enough, I just had a conversation with a buddy of mine about this. Apparently what drives him nuts is the 'arbitrary' application of the law (generally traffic) by police. Meaning, the use of police discretion clouds everyones interpretation of the law and what would get them a ticket. Wouldn't it be easier, and perhaps cause less confusion, if police wrote a ticket for ANY violation of the TSA?

In this example, 8 km over is a violation. Why/how can you complain? Can you define the 'spirit of the law' vs. direct legislation? Does everyone share this opinion? I would suggest not.

Anyway, this is kind of a derailing but food for thought.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Jayems

Yeah, i'm more concerned with the 3 demerits than the $120 fine. I have no issue paying it, I will just go to the prosecutor and ask for the demerits reduced, but try and have it thrown out if possible. The way the cop got me was also suspect... on QEII just north of Country Hills, he was over in the fast lane, I was in the slow lane, and he managed to single me out from very far away in very heavy traffic. I know there are some here that will say "well, you got caught, so just pay the fine" ... meh. Why not get out of it if you can?

Last July, I had over $1,000 in tickets I had to pay before I renewed my registration. Some of these were parking tickets, but some were for speeding, running a red light and other moving violations.

I recently got my insurance renewal papers from my insurance company and my insurance rates went down! Its possible your insurance company won't check your record over the past year when you renew.