haircuts

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

I leave $40 for a $30 cut

Word.

Some of you no doubt think that's obscene, but I made a decision to tip generously at places I go for repeat business. You'd be surprised how quickly they get to know you, and that's a good thing.

And I'm the furthest thing from rich, but so are most of the folks working in industries that you tip for.

[wittynickname]

Speaking as someone who does this professionally:

As a general rule, most guys do tip. Hell, percentage-wise, most guys tip better than women do, and quite a few are very loyal clients. That said, if I do a guy's haircut and it takes 10 minutes with the clippers, and he doesn't tip, it's disappointing, but not a big deal.

On the other hand, for example, I had a woman in a few weeks ago--and I spent THREE HOURS trying to fix her daughter's messed up haircolor, and they both loved it when they left--and she didn't tip. Now THAT will make a stylist mad. And yes, we remember those kinds of things, and will keep that in mind. I would never give a person a bad service because of something like that--but I'm never going to go the extra mile to help them out either.

That said--we charge $14 for a men's cut at my salon, and every so often you get a guy who hands you a twenty and tells you to keep the change, and people like that absolutely make your day.

[JohnnyB]

I will tip for whatever service expects tips when I am in a tipping sort of country, but damn I think tipping is ######ed. Just pay people a decent wage, and hire decent people. I hate the idea of pay and quality control essentially being transfered to the customer.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

On the other hand, for example, I had a woman in a few weeks ago--and I spent THREE HOURS trying to fix her daughter's messed up haircolor, and they both loved it when they left--and she didn't tip. Now THAT will make a stylist mad. And yes, we remember those kinds of things, and will keep that in mind. I would never give a person a bad service because of something like that--but I'm never going to go the extra mile to help them out either.

This is exactly why I hate the concept of tipping.
People are obligated to do it to ensure top service. Top Service is not obligated to ensure a tip.
The whole sequence is backwards, and people tip because they fear getting blacklisted, not because they're actually really happy with great service.

I rarely even get good service now (especially at restaurants), because all of the staff think they're entitled to good tips and have no obligation for good service.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I will tip for whatever service expects tips when I am in a tipping sort of country, but damn I think tipping is ######ed. Just pay people a decent wage, and hire decent people. I hate the idea of pay and quality control essentially being transfered to the customer.

Well, restaurants and the likes could just raise their prices by 15% and give their employees that increase. You are paying the same either way. Tipping gives you a chance to decide whether or not their service deserves a good or bad wage.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

This is exactly why I hate the concept of tipping.
People are obligated to do it to ensure top service. Top Service is not obligated to ensure a tip.
The whole sequence is backwards, and people tip because they fear getting blacklisted, not because they're actually really happy with great service.

I rarely even get good service now (especially at restaurants), because all of the staff think they're entitled to good tips and have no obligation for good service.

I agree with this experience.

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Well, restaurants and the likes could just raise their prices by 15% and give their employees that increase. You are paying the same either way. Tipping gives you a chance to decide whether or not their service deserves a good or bad wage.

That seems to be the common argument, but why should I want to evaluate a servers performance and judge their deserved pay +/- the obligate 15% every time I go out to eat, get a haricut etc. I'd much rather just go out, eat etc., pay and leave all the while expecting good service and having management take care of it.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

That seems to be the common argument, but why should I want to evaluate a servers performance and judge their deserved pay +/- the obligate 15% every time I go out to eat, get a haricut etc. I'd much rather just go out, eat etc., pay and leave all the while expecting good service and having management take care of it.

I can honestly tell you that, as a server myself, you would be getting much worse service if the tip was automatically included or if the restaurant industry paid a higher wage to their servers and abolished tipping. I am not saying this about myself, because I beleive I would give good service no matter what the scenario, but as with any job, a lot of people are just inherantly lazy. Many of the people I work with would no longer go the extra mile for a table, if they knew that they were guaranteed their wage. Tipping encourages hard work, and I don't think you can argue that. It's not always the case, but I do feel that the way our restaurant industry does things here in Canada and the States is a lot better than the way European countries do it with their automatic 15% tip.

As an interesting and non related side-note, did anybody know that in some fancy restaurants around the world, the waiters actually pay the restaurant for their position? I met a guy who is a waiter in some fancy restaurant in New York, and actually pays the restaurant $1000 dollars a month in order to be employed by them. He makes his total living off of tips. Also, apparently every time a new server is "hired" (I don't know what else to call it....), the existing waiters all interview the person and can veto the hiring if they don't feel he would work well on their team. Interesting concept.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

This is exactly why I hate the concept of tipping.
People are obligated to do it to ensure top service. Top Service is not obligated to ensure a tip.
The whole sequence is backwards, and people tip because they fear getting blacklisted, not because they're actually really happy with great service.

I rarely even get good service now (especially at restaurants), because all of the staff think they're entitled to good tips and have no obligation for good service.

Why would you assume this?!

I tip well for decent service, really really well for great service and i tip minimally (and rarely none at all) for poor-to-horrible service.


Why would you tip for bad service? The problem is that too many people (1) do not stiff people after bad service and (2) too many other people are just cheap so that the service providers can just assume that those that do not tip are just cheap instead of knowing they in fact deserved that zero tip.



Claeren.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

I can honestly tell you that, as a server myself, you would be getting much worse service if the tip was automatically included or if the restaurant industry paid a higher wage to their servers and abolished tipping. I am not saying this about myself, because I beleive I would give good service no matter what the scenario, but as with any job, a lot of people are just inherantly lazy. Many of the people I work with would no longer go the extra mile for a table, if they knew that they were guaranteed their wage. Tipping encourages hard work, and I don't think you can argue that. It's not always the case, but I do feel that the way our restaurant industry does things here in Canada and the States is a lot better than the way European countries do it with their automatic 15% tip.

I disagree with you on this point because if servers are paid at a higher level then the employer can be more selective in terms of who they employ, because it's a better job. Also, the emphasis is placed on management to ensure good service, who really have far more control than the customers do. I find that, in general, I tend to get better service in countries without tipping and where people are doing a good job because of pride in their work and higher expectations on the part of their employers. Tipping just presents a dynamic between customer and server that I don't think is entirely healthy. If it was a matter of people tipping when they're really thrilled with service things may be different, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't work that way here and tipping is expected as a standard.

[Super-Rye]

I leave $5 on a $25 cut. I tip because when I worked at a bar I always hated when people paid exact change after you bend over backwards to get them what they want and they just up and leave. The girl who cuts my hair does a fantastic job and should be rewarded as such IMO.

[FlamingLonghorn]

I tip $10 to my hairdresser because although she charges only $15 bucks and sometimes gives me a discounted rate of $8 she does a better job then when I used to pay $30-40 so figure $25 is still less than I used to pay for worse haircuts...

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I disagree with you on this point because if servers are paid at a higher level then the employer can be more selective in terms of who they employ, because it's a better job. Also, the emphasis is placed on management to ensure good service, who really have far more control than the customers do. I find that, in general, I tend to get better service in countries without tipping and where people are doing a good job because of pride in their work and higher expectations on the part of their employers. Tipping just presents a dynamic between customer and server that I don't think is entirely healthy. If it was a matter of people tipping when they're really thrilled with service things may be different, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't work that way here and tipping is expected as a standard.

Why would the simple fact that the restaurant pays your wage rather than the customer make it a better job? It's not your regular minimum wage job, and I guarantee you that for young college kids, its one of the best ways to pay your way through school, etc... Sure we get paid $7.00 an hour by the restaurant, but truth is, with tips we average out to around $20.00. There are enough people that come in to apply for these types of jobs that the managers can and are very selective about who they hire. It is a very sought after job, and their aren't going to be any more applicants coming through the door because they know the money they are being paid comes from the business rather than the customer.

Also, you seem to imply that the management sits back and lets the customers ensure good service. Out of all my jobs I have never seen so many people get fired in their first day or first week because they simply don't have what it takes. Other people who have worked at places like Earl's or Joey's can back me up on this. Tipping is just a reward and an encouraging factor to work hard, much like corporations reward hard work with bonuses or benefits. If the fact that the reward is coming out of your pocket rather than the restaurant's, than like I said before, restaurants would have no problem raising prices by 15% and you'd be paying more for poor service, the same for good service, and less for great service. A lazy server would be making the same for less work, and the restaurant would come out even. It doesn't really matter what system you use.

[burnin_vernon]

If tipping was replaced with higher wages, it would mean a huge paycut for servers as the majority of them don't declare tips come tax time. A server would have to make over $20 per hour to even out after taxes. This would make the job not so desireable.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

As an interesting and non related side-note, did anybody know that in some fancy restaurants around the world, the waiters actually pay the restaurant for their position? I met a guy who is a waiter in some fancy restaurant in New York, and actually pays the restaurant $1000 dollars a month in order to be employed by them. He makes his total living off of tips. Also, apparently every time a new server is "hired" (I don't know what else to call it....), the existing waiters all interview the person and can veto the hiring if they don't feel he would work well on their team. Interesting concept.

Not just around the world. A friend of mine worked at some resort in Kananaskis in the late 80's/early 90's. I didn't know the area back then so I can't tell you where it was, but as a waitress she paid them $500 per month to work there. And with my first bartending job I didn't get paid for the first month- but I still made $50 on a bad night and $200 on a good night

Originally Posted by burnin_vernon

If tipping was replaced with higher wages, it would mean a huge paycut for servers as the majority of them don't declare tips come tax time. A server would have to make over $20 per hour to even out after taxes. This would make the job not so desireable.

I'm not sure how good of an arguement that is; admitting to defrauding the tax system isn't the best way to make your case. I know you aren't condoning it per se, but it still is a weak point.

I would just rather the price include the service. Can you imagine if every service industry was dependant on tips? Plumbers, mechanics, the cashier at Wal-Mart, etc.

[Buff]

I hate tipping. I never tipped when I got my haircut. I went to the same lady from the age of 11 to 23 and I always got good service but I never tipped once.

I only tip at restaurants and bars and I keep it to 10% (at the most) as 10% is easiest to figure out in my head.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Why would the simple fact that the restaurant pays your wage rather than the customer make it a better job? It's not your regular minimum wage job, and I guarantee you that for young college kids, its one of the best ways to pay your way through school, etc... Sure we get paid $7.00 an hour by the restaurant, but truth is, with tips we average out to around $20.00. There are enough people that come in to apply for these types of jobs that the managers can and are very selective about who they hire. It is a very sought after job, and their aren't going to be any more applicants coming through the door because they know the money they are being paid comes from the business rather than the customer.

Also, you seem to imply that the management sits back and lets the customers ensure good service. Out of all my jobs I have never seen so many people get fired in their first day or first week because they simply don't have what it takes. Other people who have worked at places like Earl's or Joey's can back me up on this. Tipping is just a reward and an encouraging factor to work hard, much like corporations reward hard work with bonuses or benefits. If the fact that the reward is coming out of your pocket rather than the restaurant's, than like I said before, restaurants would have no problem raising prices by 15% and you'd be paying more for poor service, the same for good service, and less for great service. A lazy server would be making the same for less work, and the restaurant would come out even. It doesn't really matter what system you use.

I see what you're saying, and I acknowledge that there seems to be a lot of common capitalist sense in it. The thing is this argument is really all theoretical on both our parts about how people are going to respond to different systems, and I'm sure part of the difference is also cultural between how people relate to their jobs in countries with different standards on this sort of thing. Basically your just talking about your experience as a server in one type of system, and I'm just talking about my experience as a customer in different types of systems. Perhaps we ought to just agree to disagree, since our experiences speak differently and the theorizing isn't going to answer anything.

[V]

I wish I could convince my clients that they're going to get crappy service unless they pay me a 15% tip on top of that $50k fee my company just charged them.

[Joborule]

I always tip a 5 extra.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by V

I wish I could convince my clients that they're going to get crappy service unless they pay me a 15% tip on top of that $50k fee my company just charged them.

Well, I am sure you are getting paid far more than minimum wage, so yes, I think you might have a hard time convincing them to give you 15%.

I see what you're saying, and I acknowledge that there seems to be a lot of common capitalist sense in it. The thing is this argument is really all theoretical on both our parts about how people are going to respond to different systems, and I'm sure part of the difference is also cultural between how people relate to their jobs in countries with different standards on this sort of thing. Basically your just talking about your experience as a server in one type of system, and I'm just talking about my experience as a customer in different types of systems. Perhaps we ought to just agree to disagree, since our experiences speak differently and the theorizing isn't going to answer anything.

Perfect. I wasn't trying to change your opinion, and I hope you didn't get the impression that I didn't respect it. I just wanted to voice my own side of things. Cheers.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by burnin_vernon

If tipping was replaced with higher wages, it would mean a huge paycut for servers as the majority of them don't declare tips come tax time. A server would have to make over $20 per hour to even out after taxes. This would make the job not so desireable.

I think most servers actually declare a portion of their tips, just not the whole thing. (Keeping track of what you have made in tips over a whole year would be a hard thing to do anyways.) I mean, Revenue Canada isn't stupid right? They see that a person works in a restaurant they are going to get suspicious if no tips are declared. Easy to get caught when they look at your bank statement and see all the cash deposits. That, or you become a suspected drug dealer.