The Great Iraq Swindle

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Angola, Mozambique, Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia...

Since we love going by stats....did it pay off for the UN to ignore two of the worst genocides in the world?

Still think they are credible because of that? I don't. And the US is just as much at fault as every other country on the security council.

[Flash Walken]

Credile? Stats? What are you blathering about?

You ignorantly stated the UN didn't have the guts to go into a war-torn country, and I gave you an example of the most recent one that came to mind.

Do you really think before you type things like that out? Rwanda eventually became a UN mission, and Darfur is one right now, and you used them in defense of your laughable original position.

Just bow out man. You said something dumb, and someone called you on it. Happened to me the other day in the centres thread.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

good read for a slow Sunday

only problem is that the more i read, the more i get pissed off. the entire Bush administration has to be the most corrupt government in a 1st world country that i've ever seen in my lifetime

Oh boy a music magazine for politics! Like a ballet magazine for hockey!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Oh boy a music magazine for politics! Like a ballet magazine for hockey!

It's probably 5000 words detailing some outrageous corruption and blatant stealing and that's all you have to say about it? Pretty weak.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Credile? Stats? What are you blathering about?

You ignorantly stated the UN didn't have the guts to go into a war-torn country, and I gave you an example of the most recent one that came to mind.

Do you really think before you type things like that out? Rwanda eventually became a UN mission, and Darfur is one right now, and you used them in defense of your laughable original position.

Just bow out man. You said something dumb, and someone called you on it. Happened to me the other day in the centres thread.

How often do UN forces engage in combat? Their mandate is often weak, they protect an airport for example, but when mass killings occur just outside the fence, they cannot do nothing.

Guardian article you linked says:

"They are due to take over from a largely ineffectual 7,000-strong AU force in the western Sudanese region by the end of the year, and they will have a much more muscular mandate.

They are being deployed under chapter seven of the UN charter, which will give them the right to use force to protect civilians and carry out the mission of assisting the delivery of relief supplies."

which brings some hope that those soldiers will actually help those poor people.

But its not like such a strong mandate is given the UN forces every time.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Oh boy a music magazine for politics! Like a ballet magazine for hockey!

Rolling Stone actually has a long and proud history of investigative journalism and has won many awards for the work done by their staff. As a matter of fact, here's the 2006 National Magazine Award winning story, for reporting, won by none other than Rolling Stone magazine. The second link is to a list of all the winners, as well as a link in the story to all the nominees.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...o_sold_the_war

http://www.magazine.org/editorial/ab...ases/16842.cfm

Game tapes of these, and other awards, should be available soon for you consumption.

[SinceDay1]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Oh boy a music magazine for politics! Like a ballet magazine for hockey!

Well, perhaps this 2005 Frontline report will hold a bit more credibility for you.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/

I know, just more leftist bafflegab.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Oh boy a music magazine for politics! Like a ballet magazine for hockey!

when you can't argue the facts, attack the source

[Lanny_MacDonald]

I would like to see HOZ try and attack this story.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...o_sold_the_war

Pretty damning stuff.

[Hemi-Cuda]

here is another article confirming what the Rollingstone one did, and goes more in depth into the retaliation that whistleblowers who expose fraud receive. people have been imprisoned without trial simply for trying to report criminal theft

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

I would like to see HOZ try and attack this story.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...o_sold_the_war

Pretty damning stuff.

But it was written by a music magazine!

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

when you can't argue the facts, attack the source

How Bush Allowed an Army of For-Profit Contractors to Invade the U.S. Treasury

- Are there are Non-profit contractors out there? Or maybe For-loss contractors?

But two years and $72 million later, you deliver not a functioning police academy but one of the great engineering clusterfks of all time, a practically useless pile of rubble so badly constructed that its walls and ceilings are literally caked in sht and pss, a result of subpar plumbing in the upper floors.

- Government waste? Can't be? I wonder how this stacks up versus the 500 buck toilet seats the US military is famour for buying? How about that bridge in Minnesota that fell down for unaccountable Government?


This is a hack article about government waste laced with swear words blaming Bush as though he had a personal profit in each deal.

Like I said....a ballet mag for hockey.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by HOZ

How Bush Allowed an Army of For-Profit Contractors to Invade the U.S. Treasury

- Are there are Non-profit contractors out there? Or maybe For-loss contractors?

But two years and $72 million later, you deliver not a functioning police academy but one of the great engineering clusterfks of all time, a practically useless pile of rubble so badly constructed that its walls and ceilings are literally caked in sht and pss, a result of subpar plumbing in the upper floors.

- Government waste? Can't be? I wonder how this stacks up versus the 500 buck toilet seats the US military is famour for buying? How about that bridge in Minnesota that fell down for unaccountable Government?


This is a hack article about government waste laced with swear words blaming Bush as though he had a personal profit in each deal.

Like I said....a ballet mag for hockey.

what about the other article i linked, 3 posts above? it was published by the Associated Press and it says much the same thing, it even goes further than the Rollingstone article and describes even more horrendous acts by the US gov't

and how exactly is describing even more governmental blunders supporting your argument? are they supposed to be excused for building a feces filled training facility because they screw so many other things up?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by HOZ

- Are there are Non-profit contractors out there? Or maybe For-loss contractors?

Reading comprehension is mother for some people. These contractors were guaranteed profits through guaranteed contracts. This guaranteed profit was based on how much money they spent, not on the product delivered. These guaranteed profit contracts were provided to a select group of indidviduals and companies that were neither capable of delivering of the promises, or had no track record of having an expertise in the area where they were contracted in the first place. The only thing that made them worthy of this windfall was the fact they were good little rightwing hacks. These con-men were allowed to take money, over-bill, never deliver, and THEN get paid out a massive amount of money on top of what they stole, because they had a contract.

- Government waste? Can't be? I wonder how this stacks up versus the 500 buck toilet seats the US military is famour for buying? How about that bridge in Minnesota that fell down for unaccountable Government?

This isn't an article about government waste. It's an article about fraud and the intentional refusal of the government to act upon that fraud. Big difference.

Yes, how about the crumbling infrastructure in the United States? Think the failure of the infrastructure might have something to do with the trillion dollars spent in Iraq, and not spent on infrastructure and transportation projects so desperately needed in America?

Man, you just keep painting yourself into tighter corners with every post.

This is a hack article about government waste laced with swear words blaming Bush as though he had a personal profit in each deal.

Bush (and Cheney) has profitted greatly from what has transpired in Iraq. He has maintained his control in the US because of the fine lobbying paid for by the same companies that are profiteering in Iraq. The personal windfall for Bush will come when he leaves office and is granted a board of directors position with each of these companies and they pay him massive amounts of money to speak to their private gatherings at resorts around the world.

Like I said....a ballet mag for hockey.

I always figured you were more intune with ballet, the way you attempt to dance around every issue tossed in your face. Must be more game tapes available in Japan from those performances. You should stick with the commentary on the Bolshoi, because your grasp on geo-politics is really left wanting.

[Bingo]

Lanny, Flash .. come one guys enough with the personal attacks.

I'm not even wading into this one, but the number of insults and drive bys in your posts is unacceptable.

You're welcome to disagree and I know you both will, but do it without the personal attacks.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lanny, Flash .. come one guys enough with the personal attacks.

I'm not even wading into this one, but the number of insults and drive bys in your posts is unacceptable.

You're welcome to disagree and I know you both will, but do it without the personal attacks.

Come on Bingo, HOZ deserves everything he gets. He makes assinine comments and then gets proven to be 100% completely wrong in his statements. He gets multiple people posting proof opposite to his contentious belief and then he makes a glib comment to try and deflect the fact that he was so blatantly wrong, or down right ignorant to the facts. Also, you shouldn't talk about drivebys when you are attempting to protect HOZ, the guy is the king of drivebys. Maybe you would prefer we responded with mindless political cartoons like HOZ does, instead of challenging him on his point and making him look like the uniformed buffoon he comes off as?. I think we're furthering the conversation by burying him with proof of the opposite of what he claims. Sometimes you just have to call a spade-a-spade. If the guy is going to act like an ignorant ass, that's the appropriate term to use to describe him, even though no one has done just that in this thread. People have instead elected to pick apart his defense. If he's going to use a ridiculous line of defense where is the harm in ridiculing that line of defense?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Come on Bingo, HOZ deserves everything he gets. He makes assinine comments and then gets proven to be 100% completely wrong in his statements. He gets multiple people posting proof opposite to his contentious belief and then he makes a glib comment to try and deflect the fact that he was so blatantly wrong, or down right ignorant to the facts. Also, you shouldn't talk about drivebys when you are attempting to protect HOZ, the guy is the king of drivebys. Maybe you would prefer we responded with mindless political cartoons like HOZ does, instead of challenging him on his point and making him look like the uniformed buffoon he comes off as?. I think we're furthering the conversation by burying him with proof of the opposite of what he claims. Sometimes you just have to call a spade-a-spade. If the guy is going to act like an ignorant ass, that's the appropriate term to use to describe him, even though no one has done just that in this thread. People have instead elected to pick apart his defense. If he's going to use a ridiculous line of defense where is the harm in ridiculing that line of defense?

1. not protecting anyone in particular
2. glib is allowed, it's a weak response but it's not a personal attack
3. look around, many of us are able to argue these issues without insults. Try it.
4. You called the guy a buffoon in your response to me.

Your bold statement above ... easy ... if his response is ridiculous it should be easy to counter without insulting him shouldn't it? Kind of like picking the wings off a fly.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

what about the other article i linked, 3 posts above? it was published by the Associated Press and it says much the same thing, it even goes further than the Rollingstone article and describes even more horrendous acts by the US gov't

and how exactly is describing even more governmental blunders supporting your argument? are they supposed to be excused for building a feces filled training facility because they screw so many other things up?

Do you even know what my position is? Or just assumed?

Yes the waste is distasteful, but not surprising. Gov't/Military with money = guaranteed waste. Has been that way for a long time (hence the examples). Iraq has been a non-stop Keystone Cop extravaganza.

AP article is written professionally and not laced with juvenile profanity. The Rollingstone article is torqued up as though GW has a personal hand in everything. Like I said....like quoting a Ballet Magazine about Hockey.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

But it was written by a music magazine!

Off topic, I know, but actually Rolling Stone is not a music magazine. It's a pop culture/politics magazine and I despise it. Worst subscription ever. I say this because I thought I was subscribing to the best music magazine.

I'm not discriminating though because Spin and Blender are almost as bad.

[T@T]

Why are people so surprized? every government in history has wasted their peoples money on war and crap at some point.

But i'll say this,if someone flew 757's into the Bankers hall buildings downtown and killed 3000 people i would lie my ass off to make sure i get everyone even close to have been involved. People seem to forget the dark day that exposed the weakness of freedom and pick on the politics of the people trying to make sure it wont happen again.

Maybe its just me and my ######ation,but they should have nuked Afghanistan pronto where they knew Bin Laden was and Irag wouldn't have happened.