There’s a 20 percent chance we’re living in a computer simulation

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I read an interesting article a while back about a neuroscience research.....

I believe I have read the same, or at least similar articles. The fact is there is a neurological basis for the belief in (a) God. Not only are pleasure centers activated when we think about it, but the very desire to believe is caused by neurological events in our brains.

Originally Posted by Calculon

However, I would venture to guess that either way our brains are merely interpreters of the "code of reality".

This is how I think of it as well.

Our brain is the CPU, our senses are the input devices (mouse, keyboard, etc) while language and behaviour are the outputs (monitor, printer, etc).


Currently we have a slight understanding of all the different inputs and the corresponding outputs... but science still has a long way to go before we can simulate an entire world!

[Save Us Sutter]

I was going to throw Adams into this conversation, but I figured I would let you get it in first.

Too bad he passed away. Something tells me he knew all the answers anyway. But knowing him, he couldn't just tell someone... he had to write it all down in an incredibly entertaining and witty way.

Wish we hadda uploaded his brain somewhere.......

[JohnnyB]

God I hate philosophers!
What a freaking waste of existence much of that stuff is. Who cares if it's a computer simulation? Just get on with things and quit being useless damnit!

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

God I hate philosophers!
What a freaking waste of existence much of that stuff is. Who cares if it's a computer simulation? Just get on with things and quit being useless damnit!

Wow. Get on with what may I ask? What (in your opinion anyway) is a better pursuit?

Money, power, sex...? What?

For me, accumulating knowledge IS "getting on with things". Be it Philosophy, Psychology, Physics or whatever I happen to be reading.

And quit being so useless? That's a bit of an assumption on your part isn't it? I have a job and I'm working on my Masters degree so I can eventually be a professor. Is opening myself up to new ideas, contemplating these ideas, and aspiring to teach the next generation what I have learned about life being useless??

edit: I just read your sig. I guess to someone who thinks stupidity is the means to the end, knowledge is a pretty useless pursuit. Guess I shouldn't have bothered to reply. I'm sure it's just a quote from a movie or something.... but it helped prove my point... haha

[Ford Prefect]

Sutter ... you forget that there is a large part of society ... some religions, governments, the world's corporate power brokers ... who would really prefer we didn't seek knowledge. Knowledge leads to questioning the status quo, which isn't always desirable to them. Furthermore, knowledge is power and they are reluctant to share it. So these various elite powers would prefer the masses to be a bunch of unquestioning cattle who amuse themselves with the baubles they throw out to society ... namely pop culture. Roger Waters's Amused To Death album is an excellent commentary on all this.

[calculoso]

Someone just get around to watching the Matrix???

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Someone just get around to watching the Matrix???

If you mean me, no. I haven't watched one of them for a few years now. Good series though. I have been listening to that Rogers Waters album a bit lately though.

[Save Us Sutter]

Oh I understand that quite well Mr. Prefect. I, however, choose to learn everything I can as well as I can so I can have some understanding of this world before I die.

But enough pretentiousness.... the real question here... is JohnnyB one of these powers? Come to CalPuck to belittle my quest and send me scurrying to the nearest construction site so I can build skyscrapers all day and question nothing but the deductions on my paycheque?

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Save Us Sutter

Oh I understand that quite well Mr. Prefect. I, however, choose to learn everything I can as well as I can so I can have some understanding of this world before I die.

But enough pretentiousness.... the real question here... is JohnnyB one of these powers? Come to CalPuck to belittle my quest and send me scurrying to the nearest construction site so I can build skyscrapers all day and question nothing but the deductions on my paycheque?

Nah, I don't think JohnnyB is one of those ... nor did I mean to imply it. I was more just trying to say there will always be elements who, for whatever reason, seek to surpress esoteric thought. Some because they find it unproductive and a waste of time, which is where I would place JohnnyB, which is fine for those who are of that type of mindset. But there are also others who really don't want people poking around and looking under rocks, which is where philosophy and other such rot can lead. That was more what I was trying to get at. But it's getting late, and we're getting a bit OT here, so I'm going to sign off before my simulator screen gives me an error message.

[Save Us Sutter]

Yeah, you're right... I guess I was a little harsh. Sorry Johnny. Though really, is posting on a message board more productive then reading a philosophy text?

The point is, even if no one really believes that we are a computer simulation, the thought experiment itself can lead to new understandings about our "real" reality. That's why this thread was interesting to me.

I'm going back to looking under rocks now. That's what my programmer would have wanted.

[JohnnyB]

Look, I understand that my negative views on philosophy (particularly expressed in such a negative manner) may be a little polarizing. I'm ok with that because I'm not the stereotype corporate/government power nor the intellectual underling being portrayed. I'm ok with it because I've studied philosophy formally for years, I have a degree in it, and there was a time when I had considered becoming a prof in it as well. The practice of philosophy led me to a perspective that sees the vast majority of dedicated practice in the discipline to be little more than self-serving prattle (largely due to the nature of academic politics, but moresoe due to the tensions in analytic reasoning and the nature of language).

I think just about everyone would benefit from studying philosophy at some point, because it does require learning ways of reasoning and arguing that are helpful throughout life, but which can become paralyzing if taken too seriously. On the other hand, I've seen enough to believe that a lot of philosophy is the equivalent of intellectual masterbation, climbing the status ladder within an academic field, just trying to maintain standards for publishing frequency, and self-deluded belief in the pursuit of 'knowledge' that just isn't there for the reaping. Still, I wouldn't say that about all philosophers, and even if I could say that I wouldn't deny a person who loves philosophy all the pleasure they could get from indulging in it.

Anyways, I admit that my initial response was over the top. Perhaps it would have been better for me simply to make a comment along the lines that this prof's theory is perhaps an interesting anecdote that might be worthy of diverting a little attention in intelligent conversation over a pint before getting onto a good joke or something with a little more relevance to the type of poignant decisions that virtual or non-virtual humans both make. Maybe another table at the pub would find it worthy of a dissertation, but to me that's just silly.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Save Us Sutter

Yeah, you're right... I guess I was a little harsh. Sorry Johnny. Though really, is posting on a message board more productive then reading a philosophy text?

The point is, even if no one really believes that we are a computer simulation, the thought experiment itself can lead to new understandings about our "real" reality. That's why this thread was interesting to me.

I'm going back to looking under rocks now. That's what my programmer would have wanted.

No offense taken on this side. It's really probably more me that ought to be apologizing to you and the other philosophers of the world for rudely unleashing an abrasive and, given the nature of this thread, antagonistic opinion.

[FireFly]

Perhaps the programmers have us create viruses and such in the virtual world so we think they'd be possible in the actual world and therefore, make us believe it's unlikely that it's possible that we're a sim?

[Save Us Sutter]

Thanks JohnnyB for the explanation. I took your comment to be a shot at us for even discussing a philisophical topic. Had I been aware of your background I would have taken the joke a little better I think!

For the record, while philosophy was one of my majors, I chose to pursue psych for my master's degree. While I love to read and discuss philosophy I agree with the label of "intellectual masterbation" for a lot of what is out there. Up until recently philosophy was about seeking truth and that is what I love about it. But you are right that now it is much more about trying to look smarter than your peers and fighting over the meaning of certain words. But I am still very interested in philosophy of mind and of language which is why the article caught my interest.