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Old 08-15-2007, 07:16 PM   #21
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anyways, i just skimmed the article...
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well i don't take this article seriously...
Hard to take something seriously if you don't even read the entire thing. Perhaps if it was a television show instead.........

I don't see how anyone can write this off as America's problem. The fact is there is a huge section of the WORLDWIDE population that seek truth from out-dated, ridiculous and biased sources. This article merely shows a small example of them.

It takes leaders to make progress. That there are so few true innovative leaders left should concern anyone with an interest in seeing our society prosper. And not just American society, but the world as a whole.

Last edited by Save Us Sutter; 08-15-2007 at 07:22 PM. Reason: screwed up quotes
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:23 PM   #22
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It almost seems to me that the only way to deal with these people is to stop tip-toeing around them. Maybe the best way to silence them is to ridicule them into exhile.
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:31 PM   #23
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I tend to agree with a lot of the things MarchHare posts, but I have to say... I hate this type of journalism. After reading the 1st sentence, I found it very hard to read with an open mind. Any time an article opens on the offence like this one, I become suspicious of the motives.

And if you can trust the motives, how can you trust the details?
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:32 PM   #24
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It almost seems to me that the only way to deal with these people is to stop tip-toeing around them. Maybe the best way to silence them is to ridicule them into exhile.
I'm with you.

And just to kick things off...

Anyone who believes that a human being ever put a saddle on a live dinosaur and went for a ride is either an idiot or mentally ill.
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:35 PM   #25
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It almost seems to me that the only way to deal with these people is to stop tip-toeing around them. Maybe the best way to silence them is to ridicule them into exhile.
The problem is a lot of these people use some form of religion in their arguments. It's hard to ridicule someone's religion without coming off as a complete jacka**.

You can ridicule the crap they are spewing forth, but then they will just turn around and say you are ignorant for not respecting their beliefs. Hey, I respect anyone's right to believe whatever they want, but when it starts screwing up MY world because enough of the mindless out there are following it, I get ticked off.

I can ridicule a preacher on TV asking his followers for money and it doesn't mean I hate all christians. But it gets turned around on you so quick you end up feeling like a p***k.

So, I don't think ridiculing them is going to help. There has to be a better way to get people to think for themselves. At least research ideas instead of just believing whoever is yelling the loudest.
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:36 PM   #26
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The problem is a lot of these people use some form of religion in their arguments. It's hard to ridicule someone's religion without coming off as a complete jacka**.
Fata that. I don't respect your right to be a moron. I'm completely okay with having an idiot think I'm a jackass, because it obviously means I'm doing something right.

Last edited by rubecube; 08-15-2007 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:40 PM   #27
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Anyone who believes that a human being ever put a saddle on a live dinosaur and went for a ride is either an idiot or mentally ill.
###

But to actually create change, I don't think calling them an idiot is going to work. See my post above for why.

So the real question is, how does the scientifc community regain people's trust? It's a mess out there right now, and a lot of it gain be blamed on politicains twisting studies around to fit their agendas.

Will there ever be a day when the average person takes the time to read peer-reviewed journals and getting the facts for themselves? Or will they just keep flicking on the television and believing the interpretations of the facts they get there?
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:42 PM   #28
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###

But to actually create change, I don't think calling them an idiot is going to work. See my post above for why.
No but you might get them to stop being so vocal. People tend to quiet down a bit when they're made to look like a fool.
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:42 PM   #29
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Fata that. I don't respect your right to be a moron. I'm completely okay with having an idiot think I'm a jackass, because it obviously means I'm doing something right.
I agree with you.

I guess I was just trying to think of a way to change people's minds instead of just pissing them off.

And I guess I also don't think it would quiet them down. I'm sure I wouldn't be the first person to yell at this guy and tell him he's a friggin' whacko for thinking his dinosaur needs a sadle on it. He's probably thinking the same thing as I am..."i'm ok with an idiot thinking i'm a jackass".

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Old 08-15-2007, 07:43 PM   #30
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I agree with you.

I guess I was just trying to think of a way to change people's minds instead of just pissing them off.
We've been trying that, it's not working.
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:48 PM   #31
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I guess I was just trying to think of a way to change people's minds instead of just pissing them off.

And I guess I also don't think it would quiet them down. I'm sure I wouldn't be the first person to yell at this guy and tell him he's a friggin' whacko for thinking his dinosaur needs a sadle on it. He's probably thinking the same thing as I am..."i'm ok with an idiot thinking i'm a jackass".
I like your way of thinking better.

The whole "piss them off and riducule them" tactic is eerily similar to that of belligerent neo-con mouth pieces like Ann Coulter.

I just don't see how that can be productive.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:16 PM   #32
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I'm with you. Anyone who believes that a human being ever put a saddle on a live dinosaur and went for a ride is either an idiot or mentally ill.
Was that a reference to our country's current Public Safety Minister?

I don't think this article was as much about secular reasoning vs religious faith as it was about left vs right.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:20 PM   #33
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I like your way of thinking better.
Thank you. Now we just have to find the correct way to get through to these people.

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I don't think this article was as much about secular reasoning vs religious faith as it was about left vs right.
You're right, the article certainly comes off that way. But the more interesting discussion puts the political leanings on the back burner to get to the heart of the matter.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:22 PM   #34
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Thank you. Now we just have to find the correct way to get through to these people.
Tolerance slogans on monster trucks?
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:35 PM   #35
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Turn "Grave Digger" into "Book Reader"??

Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.....
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:13 PM   #36
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I can ridicule a preacher on TV asking his followers for money and it doesn't mean I hate all christians. But it gets turned around on you so quick you end up feeling like a p***k.
In the end I guess I don't care if I come across as a prick and I don't feel like it can get turned around on me. But you make a good point -- just being a belligerent, insulting prick isn't going to change any minds.

On the other hand, the crowd that thinks I am:

A) a communist
B) an agent of a supernatural dark lord
C) signed up to spend eternity in some fiery pit
d) dumb
e) all of the above

is worse than me. I just think their beliefs are dumb and say so. They, in turn, believe and say that I am stupid, evil, misguided and doomed. Why do I come across as the bad guy in this exchange?

I'm sick of it. 'em.
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:31 PM   #37
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Well if there's a whole crowd of them your best bet is to just run!

I don't know if they're really worse than you. Misguided, lazy, uninformed, ignorant... yes... but worse?

Yeah I guess they are worse.

But the point remains that these people have an enormous influence on how the world is run. It's hard for me to just say fata them because, like it or not, I have to live in the same world as them. 100 years ago, it wouldn't matter... I'd stay on my island and they'd stay on theirs. But the world is shrinking... and the American Idiots (or whatever you want to call them) effect a lot of things. Everything from what is on my television, to what my children will one day learn in school all the way up to influencing who is running the most powerful country in the world.

So while you may say "fata 'em", in reality they are "fata-ing us".

That's why I'd rather find a solution.

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Old 08-15-2007, 10:49 PM   #38
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In a situation like this perhaps education would be the best bet when dealing with extreme right wing folks like the ones presented by the article. When confronted with the procedure for an item such as carbon dating, and the methodology and technique behind the radioisotopic decay and half life illustrating the near-precise age determination for such things as dinosaurs, perhaps facts could sway less intelligible notions that we saddled up Triceratops. Compulsory education in science courses from a young age could also enlighten youth so that they could take a stand against this inane pontificating courtesy of their elders - by viewing relative proofs of evolution such as vestigial organs (the vermiform appendix is one that is close to home) with no function, and eliminating Creationism from the curriculum, the United States could aim to end this rising plague of ignorance.
I recently became a US citizen so this is really painful for me to hear. The problem is the, for the lack of a better word, idiot beliefs presented can be very easily remedied with education. If only the no child left behind plan included fundamentals of science!
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:55 PM   #39
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But the point remains that these people have an enormous influence on how the world is run. It's hard for me to just say fata them because, like it or not, I have to live in the same world as them. 100 years ago, it wouldn't matter... I'd stay on my island and they'd stay on theirs. But the world is shrinking... and the American Idiots... or whatever you want to call them effect a lot of things... from what is on my television, to what my children will one day learn in school all the way up to influencing who is running the most powerful country in the world.
Yeah, well, you may be just a little more rational than I am. Or maybe not as fed up, impatient or intoxicated as I am.

I am sick of this religious nonsense. I watched a few caterwauling and char-broiled Iraqi children on the news tonight and it just about made me puke, so I'm feeling a little sour on the whole "acceptance" thing.
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:58 PM   #40
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hate and intolerance isnt rational....
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