Manitoba First Nations Want Cellphone Revenue

[CaptainCrunch]

Could be sarcasm, but I'm curious to see if it is or not, and if it isn't how he defends his point.

[lifer]

Most Natives are infinately better off right now than they would have been if Europeans had never shown up in North America. I dont' see too many of them drinking untreated water, I've seen many getting medical treatment in clinics and hospitals, I've passed them onthe highway when they're driving cars rather than horses...the list goes on an on of what they have because of the European settlement, but all they do is want more. It's sickening, and their continued walking around demanding handouts isn't doing much to challenge the stereotypes around their people.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by lifer

their continued walking around demanding handouts isn't doing much to challenge the stereotypes around their people.

Bingo

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by lifer

I've passed them onthe highway when they're driving cars rather than horses...

And they didn`t even have them...

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by lifer

Most Natives are infinately better off right now than they would have been if Europeans had never shown up in North America. I dont' see too many of them drinking untreated water, I've seen many getting medical treatment in clinics and hospitals, I've passed them onthe highway when they're driving cars rather than horses...the list goes on an on of what they have because of the European settlement, but all they do is want more. It's sickening, and their continued walking around demanding handouts isn't doing much to challenge the stereotypes around their people.

I think there would be a rather large contingent of people that would say that technological advancemet aside, the standard of living for many Natives today is lower than it was 500 years ago.

I would say that at this point, the debate is how much is self inflicted, and how conterproductive to fixing the situation are claims such as this one about cell phone signals.

I've been through a lot of reserves, and I gotta say, living in a teepee and hunting for a living would probably be preferable to some of the places I've seen. Certainly this is a group of people that at one time were tremendously disadvantaged, but at this point there are any number of programs avaialbe to help make their lives better, but when their leadership pulls stunts like this it creats a culture looking for handouts, and those of us on the outside see the entire comunity as greedy.

Untill the leadership of a lot of bands start using the advantages afforded to their community properly, and to better the lives of the rest of the band, instead of looking for handouts like this, the problem will persist.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What is sad are the responses in this thread where people assume that we all shouldn't be receiving revenue from the CRTC and phone companies for using our PUBLIC airwaves.

Hopefully this ruling is a precedent for future cases being brought against the CRTC.

Sounds like yet another tax grab to me... Additional taxes to the phone companies for using the airways followed by additional fees to you and me for owning a cell phone.

JOY!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by lifer

Most Natives are infinately better off right now than they would have been if Europeans had never shown up in North America.

I somewhat agree with what you are trying to say; in that there is some value in going from the stone age to the iron age practically overnight. And an analogy I often bring out is let's say aliens land, offer us all this great technology; but want Antarctica in exchange. We agree, and once we are a community in the galaxy we see that we got the shaft.

However in your example; many of those issues were brought about by the white man. Disease, pollution of drinking water, and IIRC the horse didn't show up in North America until the Europeans brought them over.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

And they didn`t even have them...

oh yeah. I forgot about that.

[moncton golden flames]

Indians were conquered in North America, just like Romans conquered numerous European civilizations....they lost the battle, get over it and move on with your lives. This whole "get between the white man and his money" is getting ridiculous, there are much more pressing issues that Indians should be concerned about.

[Juventus3]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

Indians were conquered in North America, just like Romans conquered numerous European civilizations....they lost the battle, get over it and move on with your lives. This whole "get between the white man and his money" is getting ridiculous, there are much more pressing issues that Indians should be concerned about.

Such as what to do about those pesky radio and OTA TV signals that also transmit through their land?

Just as long as these guys keep thinking off their rocker, I'll continue to view them in the "stereotypical" way that they complain of.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by Juventus3

Such as what to do about those pesky radio and OTA TV signals that also transmit through their land?

Just as long as these guys keep thinking off their rocker, I'll continue to view them in the "stereotypical" way that they complain of.

I agree, until they quit whining and help themselves, I will paint them all with the same brush. I will judge individuals based on personal meetings, but as a whole, the Indians need to STFU.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I think there would be a rather large contingent of people that would say that technological advancemet aside, the standard of living for many Natives today is lower than it was 500 years ago.

Oh come on....are you for real? Given the life expectancy prior to european's in the 14th century was around 35-40 years and now is 80+. I guess they were much better off.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Given the life expectancy prior to european's in the 14th century was around 35-40 years and now is 80+. I guess they were much better off.

I would be curious to see what the life expectancy for Aboriginals is today. All of Canada is in the high 70's. I would suspect that for Aboriginals it would be lower than the average; not higher.

Plus, for myself I would rather have 40 great years than 70 crappy ones.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would be curious to see what the life expectancy for Aboriginals is today. All of Canada is in the high 70's. I would suspect that for Aboriginals it would be lower than the average; not higher.

Plus, for myself I would rather have 40 great years than 70 crappy ones.

Well according to this article, life expectancy for Natives in 1982 was:

The life expectancy at one year of age is 63.4 years for Indians and 72.8 for the national population

http://www.tgmag.ca/magic/mt2.html

So 10 years less than the national average so should be high 60's to low 70's.

Not to mention, who said their 40's was great? I would hazard to quess not so much. Having to scratch a living out of 8 months of canadian winter living in a teepee don't seem great to me. But what do I know....the only thing I have done close to that was a weekend in 4-H when we lived in straw huts in -30 C weather....not so pleasant.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would be curious to see what the life expectancy for Aboriginals is today. All of Canada is in the high 70's. I would suspect that for Aboriginals it would be lower than the average; not higher.

And I would attribute that directly to their lifestyle. There is really no reason why a native could not have the same life expectency as anyone else living in a first world country.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Oh come on....are you for real? Given the life expectancy prior to european's in the 14th century was around 35-40 years and now is 80+. I guess they were much better off.

I didn't say that I believed this.
What I said was that a lot of people would argue this, and that after seeing some reserves and the conditions that some of the homes are in that going back to unsettled land in a TeePee might be preferable. Keep in mind that before white guys showed up natives were living in a sustainable way and didn't have the pollution they have today. They also didn't have many of the diseases they have today, and the certainly didn't have the rampant alcohol abuse that is so prevalent today. So some would say that their standard of living is not that much better.

That is not what i want to debate really as it is inconsequential.
The fact is that a large portion of the native community lives in conditions very much below that of the average Canadian. A lot would argue (myself included) that a good portion of this problem is self inflicted, particularily by the leadership of many of the bands, and that claims such as this one about cell phone signals do a lot more harm than any good that is unlikely to come from getting paid off for such a rediculous claim.

Untill the leadership of these communities stop making stupid claims like this, most people will continue to see them as money hungry lay-abouts who just want handouts, and in this particular case this image is not only self inflicted, but waranted.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I think there would be a rather large contingent of people that would say that technological advancemet aside, the standard of living for many Natives today is lower than it was 500 years ago.

I would say that at this point, the debate is how much is self inflicted, and how conterproductive to fixing the situation are claims such as this one about cell phone signals.

I've been through a lot of reserves, and I gotta say, living in a teepee and hunting for a living would probably be preferable to some of the places I've seen.

I tend to agree with what you're saying. Before the arrival of Europeans and their industry, I don't think many native people had to worry about running into contaminated water anyway. Likewise, they probably didn't worry about having to treat many diseases and other ailments since a lot of them didn't exist until the Europeans showed up.

[loob job]

What an f'ng joke. Next thing they'll want to tax us for the air that we breathe because the air blew over their land. I have no respect for this crap. P.S. i live right beside Caledonia in Ontario so i've been putting up with it for over a year. That's my opinion and no one will change it. Sorry if it offends anyone.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I tend to agree with what you're saying. Before the arrival of Europeans and their industry, I don't think many native people had to worry about running into contaminated water anyway. Likewise, they probably didn't worry about having to treat many diseases and other ailments since a lot of them didn't exist until the Europeans showed up.

The diseases that you guys are talking about now do not really apply to Natives now adays. They have built their own tolerance to these diseases not to mention they are vacinated like everyone else. These diseases you are talking about do not affect Natives anymore, no more than you or I.

Other than alcohol abuse, and pollution (which was inevitable) the Natives would experience many of the same illnesses as Europeans. This arguement doesn't fly anymore.

[Azure]

Maybe Flash wasn't being sarcastic.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.