Toronto High School shooting- 1 dead

[4X4]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Well it does date back more then 30 years.

I remember the Taber incident not long after Columbine. Alot of people took the opportunity to crack the US and blame them for our problems. Why didn't anyone blame Columbine on Marc Lepine? Or Taber for that matter?

[Devils'Advocate]

Meh, we have our share of wackos. With guns and without. Only difference is that wackos have an easier time getting semis south of the border. Here they have to make do with rifles, knives and baseball bats.

The dealers and gangs have found ways of getting handguns across the border. Automatic weapons are harder to hide in the car doors. I remember when I was just 8 my Dad thought it would be a great idea to sneak a gun scope across the border without declaring it. He hid it inside one of the seats. Needless to say, we spent the next 24 hours there as border guards tore the car apart including taking the panelling off the doors.

[Juventus3]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Oh no, that's my point, it IS your fault. Canada has struggled to develop it's own cultural identity and define what is morally and socially acceptable. The younger generation has embraced the MTV culture and all the ills that come with it. I think this shows in a very big way when this kid was not turned in immediately. Frankly, when I was in school, if ANYONE showed up with a weapon they were narced on immediately. It was just not acceptable to bring a weapon to school, but that has changed. That cultural evolution is a direct response to the influx of images from elsewhere. Whether you care to admit it or not, the vast majority of those images come from south of the 49th. Canadians should be somewhat embarassed by this IMO. Canada is one of the greatest countries on earth (with the crappiest weather to go with it) and it should be able to do much better with its youth than to let it devolve into what is has. That is why seeing events like this saddens me.

That, I can agree with. Canada definitely has adopted the MTV Culture. I also agree Canada lacks a unique identity, and it is embarassing.

[Burninator]

School shootings always seem to happen one after the other. I don't want to use the word copycat, but it seems close enough. One disturbed person does it, then another equally deranged person thinks what the other person did was a good idea and follows suit, and so on.

I think Lanny's claim of America's influence is a long the right lines. America has a positive and a negative influence on Canada, that's undeniable. Recently it seems a lot of said influence is negative, debatable, but I guess it depends how you look at things. So it's certainly possible that this could be "blamed" on America, although I wouldn't give this kid an excuse like MTV or anything like that. But without knowing more it's hard to know assign "blame". Still when it seems to be fairly common knowledge that school shootings incite other school shootings, this must surely be a factor.

All I know for sure is that this was caused by Canada's tight gun laws and would have been prevented only by the addition of more guns.

*braces for impact*

[Azure]

I thought you were blaming the culture, and not the guns.

Change of mind this time around?

I forgot too add the ....gotta make sure since certain people think they can read other peoples minds.

[CaramonLS]

School shootings have just become the latest fad reaction to bigger problems at school. Angsty teen wants to kill himself? Well, now he just takes a few others with him in the process or does it to get revenge on his fellow classmates.

Is it 50 cent and all that "MTV culture" that caused this? I think that is way over the top, I think if this indeed was a school shooting like VT or Columbine, the kid probably just saw some of the other school shootings on the news and decided it was a good way to get back at people.

Want to start putting an end to these? Try dealing with some of the problems at school, such as bullying, which leads to some of the problems that have come along. I'd say bullying now probably has more of a drastic effect on children because back in the "good old days (as CB likes to call them)", kids were regularily exposed to a culture of violence from either teachers or even their parents. Now, violence isn't considered an acceptable method to deal with problem children (and rightfully so), but I think it has made kids softer in a sense.

Maybe start instituting a program where teachers (ones who are actually listened to), can recommend kids for at least some visits to a school psychologist.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Azure

I thought you were blaming the culture, and not the guns.

Change of mind this time around?

I forgot too add the ....gotta make sure since certain people think they can read other peoples minds.

No, I am blaming other school shootings, not guns. Guns don't cause a person to go and shoot up a school, but you obviously can't perform one without them. I have never said guns are the cause of someone shooting up a school, but they are a vital ingredient no doubt. As to what causes the shootings in the first place, I don't necessarily have a reformed opinion. But as you and I have already discussed, I don't think more guns are the solution. There is no need to get into that debate again, I just had that remark to poke fun at the debate.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Burninator

No, I am blaming other school shootings, not guns. Guns don't cause a person to go and shoot up a school, but you obviously can't perform one without them. I have never said guns are the cause of someone shooting up a school, but they are a vital ingredient no doubt. As to what causes the shootings in the first place, I don't necessarily have a reformed opinion. But as you and I have already discussed, I don't think more guns are the solution. There is no need to get into that debate again, I just had that remark to poke fun at the debate.

Agreed, so I'll just mention one thing.

I find it frustrating that people...especially certain people in the US scream 'gun law' ...or something 'anti-gun'...everytime a school shooting happens.

Look at the bigger picture people...sure we can all admit that guns are a vital part of the shootings, but we have to get down to the root 'causes' and find what drives these people to kill each other.

I have a faint idea that our culture might have something to do with it...and I also agree with CaramonLS....we should take a serious look at who happens in school.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Azure

Agreed, so I'll just mention one thing.

I find it frustrating that people...especially certain people in the US scream 'gun law' ...or something 'anti-gun'...everytime a school shooting happens.

Look at the bigger picture people...sure we can all admit that guns are a vital part of the shootings, but we have to get down to the root 'causes' and find what drives these people to kill each other.

I have a faint idea that our culture might have something to do with it...and I also agree with CaramonLS....we should take a serious look at who happens in school.

This kind of reaction isn't always limited to guns, wander into the 4x4 thread and you'll see the same thing. Ban all 4x4's talk. Of course it seems to be the easy solution, but getting to the root of the problem is typically the best. Unless more 4x4's is the solution... I kid, I kid.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Azure

Look at the bigger picture people...sure we can all admit that guns are a vital part of the shootings, but we have to get down to the root 'causes' and find what drives these people to kill each other.

I have a faint idea that our culture might have something to do with it...and I also agree with CaramonLS....we should take a serious look at who happens in school.

Bah. There are 100 reasons why someone goes on a rampage and kills people. Distraught over break-up. Small kid tired of getting beat up. Fat kid tired of being made fun of. Kid doesn't like Mondays. Adolescents/teens are great big balls of emotional angst.

If I hand an AK to someone who has snuck out of a mental ward and he runs into food court and starts shooting up a mall are you going to wonder why he did it? Maybe if our culture wasn't so MTV/Americanized he wouldn't have done it?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Burninator

This kind of reaction isn't always limited to guns, wander into the 4x4 thread and you'll see the same thing. Ban all 4x4's talk. Of course it seems to be the easy solution, but getting to the root of the problem is typically the best. Unless more 4x4's is the solution... I kid, I kid.

You want me banned?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by 4X4

You want me banned?

As long as you keep your drunken off-roading, vehicle abandoning and couch litter ways to a minimum. You'll be ok for now.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Bah. There are 100 reasons why someone goes on a rampage and kills people. Distraught over break-up. Small kid tired of getting beat up. Fat kid tired of being made fun of. Kid doesn't like Mondays. Adolescents/teens are great big balls of emotional angst.

If I hand an AK to someone who has snuck out of a mental ward and he runs into food court and starts shooting up a mall are you going to wonder why he did it? Maybe if our culture wasn't so MTV/Americanized he wouldn't have done it?

So if you take away the AK...problem solved? You still haven't solved the problem the kid had in the first place.

Perhaps if you get to the root of that problem...MOST kids don't go on a killing rampage because their GF/BF broke up with them....you solve the problem.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by 4X4

You want me banned?

get outta here you stinky off-roader

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

get outta here you stinky off-roader

HEY! You were off-roading the other day when I ran into you... Driving on the lawn, anyway. Just ask Table5 whether it's cool to drive on the lawn.

[Flames09]

Where to place the blame for this, not on an entire Country but you can go as far as saying that this is a copycat shooting (obviously). I dont think kids get the idea of shooting up their school because of 50 cent and I'm far from a 50 cent supporter. It all starts with the clicks in schools and teachers and parents ignoring the problem that is right infront of them. Looking back at my highschool days I could probably pick out 2-3 people that were treated poorly that would have probably liked to shoot half the school. Blaming the US isn't going to do much it's high time the problems within schools between students was taken seriously.


**On a side note I do believe 50 cent and rappers that believe it's okay to talk about shooting up one another, demoralizing women, have a ton to do with violence in America. Too many people believe these guys have no affect on their children, just think 50 cent is someones hero, that's disturbing. It's when a 50 cent video comes on I wish that there was some way to limit his voice, his opinions and his music off our television sets.