New Canadians frustrated by search for skilled jobs

[Flames09]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Well, it really is Immigration Canada that FUBARed this one. The point system they have means that only the best and the brightest get into Canada. If you are a computer programmer, come on in. If you are a doctor, come on in. If you are an engineer, come on in. Oh, and by the way, there is no tech boom and the doctors and engineers can't get certified. So into the taxi cabs for you.

There desperately needs a better way to get medical certification. I was in a French class with a woman who was a doctor in India for 10 years. She really knew her stuff. However, to become a doctor she'd have to go back to school for 4+ years. A single mother with a family to raise, she couldn't afford to go back to school to learn stuff she already knew. Frustrated, she became a lab technician at Health Canada. But it's not like we don't have a glut of doctors, eh?

The other issue is that we are bringing in TOO MANY skilled immigrants into sectors that do not require them. I remember hearing the story of a girl that came to Canada from China to work for Nortel. They promised her that they would pay for her English lessons and subsidized housing as long as she worked for them, so she spent her life savings and her parents life savings to move to Canada. She was there three weeks before Nortel laid her off. She had no money, no grasp of the language and no way home.

What kind of workers does Canada need? Manual labourers, restaurant workers, and people to stock shelves in stores.... which is mostly what is pouring across America's southern border. Maybe we can trade some Java programmers for a few illegals? Seriously - we have a glut of well educated people driving taxis, and they have a glut of unskilled labour entering their country.

I know what you mean I know several people who came from other countries who were engineers, doctors, lawyers, the best of the best and they come here and drive cabs/buses etc. It really frustrates me when people say "well they should go back to wherever they came from" these people dont (may not) have the same chances in their country so they seek a better lifestyle (safer) in Canada.

[flamingchina]

Part of the problem is, these groups, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. are basically cartels, and it's in their interest to keep demand high and supply low.
They don't want to recognize foreign credentials, as that would increase competition.
I can see to a certain extent concerns by these groups about the quality of the peoples education, but there needs to be some sort of certifying process.

[coolsurfer]

It's not only with highly trained jobs that there is a problem. My girlfriends father came from Croatia and his welding credentials weren't acceptable by Canadian standards. And just to make things clear, his credentials would have been acceptable in Germany, and a number of other western European countries. He had a job in a shop in Red Deer, and he was doing more work than any of the other guys, and he was making aroung $8/hour. Obviously this was a few years ago. They also really jerked him around by saying he would get more after having 6 months experience, then doing some things where around 5 months he had to start all over. Even though his english was horrible in the beginning, it didn't hurt him from doing the job. And obiously now he is making much more.

[Phanuthier]

Stadards for professional organizaitons are set to maintain standards, and these standards differ from country to country. For instance, it is easy to get a medical degree in Austraila and in USA, but standards are much higher in Canada. Many engineering certificates in the USA are from community collage that don't meet Canadian standards.

I'm sure there are many fit skilled immagrants coming in, but to maintain standards, unfortunately alot of talent is left underutalized and I hardly blame Canadian Law. Perhaps prof organizations can make easier transitions or a board to overrule certain exceptions, but ultimately its the individuals themselves to recognize the standards set in the country you are moving to.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by flamingchina

Part of the problem is, these groups, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. are basically cartels, and it's in their interest to keep demand high and supply low.
They don't want to recognize foreign credentials, as that would increase competition.
I can see to a certain extent concerns by these groups about the quality of the peoples education, but there needs to be some sort of certifying process.

Maybe because those professions are extremely specialized and it's critical to have necessary credentials and there is a certifying process. I dont want to be under the knife not knowing if my doctor is fully certified. Besides, it's not like doctors, lawyers, engineers create the immigration policy.

As for the "if you dont like it, go back to whereever you came from" - it's not racist - it's true. DO you research, come to the country, do what you have to to work and that's it. If you were a doctor in your former country, dont think that you have a sense of entitlement.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Cry me a river. If they can't get a decent job here they can go back to wherever they came from. I'm sure the job opportunites and life style will be about the same. What? They aren't? Well, then shut up and make the best of it or go home. Frankly I don't care about how hard it is here for new people.

It kind of shocks me sometimes that Canada, a nation that is almost entirely made up of immigrants, can harbor such insular views. We are basically some tiny little unimportant nation riding on the US coat tails in the big skeem of things, and we should be damned appreciative of skilled workers coming our way with the potential to propagate a high quality of life and living for our futures.

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

As for the "if you dont like it, go back to whereever you came from" - it's not racist - it's true. DO you research, come to the country, do what you have to to work and that's it. If you were a doctor in your former country, dont think that you have a sense of entitlement.

Fare enough that people should know the system and have to work within it, but that doesn't mean that the system itself isn't in need of improvement.
I think the integration process definitely needs streamlining.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It kind of shocks me sometimes that Canada, a nation that is almost entirely made up of immigrants, can harbor such insular views. We are basically some tiny little unimportant nation riding on the US coat tails in the big skeem of things, and we should be damned appreciative of skilled workers coming our way with the potential to propagate a high quality of life and living for our futures.

Professional standards (med, law, engg) are at much much higher standards in Canada then the USA. Just look at exam scores for going into Canada and vis versa, as well as APEGGA exam and the FE exam. Canadians pass almost 100% for both Pro exams, while the same can't be said (its not even close) vis versa.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by fotze

NO but it is a problem when the business owners and leaders realize its a major problem and are working to fixing it. It isn't a racism problem it is a beurocratic problem, that's all, not even a hard one to fix in a lot of cases. When a drilling engineer with 30 years experience overseas comes to Alberta and Apegga makes them take Econ 209 in ordert to practice, there is absolutely no other phrase in the world to describe that as mindbogglingly mindlesssly beurocratic.

Of course if doctor from Nigeria can't speak a work of English, then of course he will have a tougher time getting job. Might be easier to teach a doctor english than teaching an english speaker to be a doctor so those doing the hiring would be wise to consider that.

Obviously the system needs to be amended to allow for an easier transition for certain people who have years of experience in a particular field and making a foreign engineer take a petty university course is just that...petty. However, I am fully supportive of very stringent, very difficult, and very high standards to recognize a foreign degree or foreign training outside of general labor. I am in fact in the middle of such a process as I have a law degree from the US, am a Canadian citizen and would like to see the prospects of practicing in Canada.

If you want to come to Canada and start a new life, great. That is the only way the country continues to grow. But to come to Canada with a sense of entitlement that just because you have a degree and years of practice that you should be able to land a similar job here - forget it. A professional certification board is the only method of ensuring uniform credentials.

[Ozy_Flame]

New Canadians! Old Canadians! Doesn't matter........I'm a calgary-born, skilled, university educated, well-trained HR and IT guy, and it's damn near impossible to find career-related work for this recent grad. Holy crap, it's going on 4 months now of hardcore searching and only a few leads, if anything at all.

This city is chock-full of blue collar work, but completely non-existent for new grads looking to break into the corporate world (unless you're in finance, accounting, or petroleum land management), new Canadians or not.

That's just my experience though.

[housejunk]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Cry me a river. If they can't get a decent job here they can go back to wherever they came from. I'm sure the job opportunites and life style will be about the same. What? They aren't? Well, then shut up and make the best of it or go home. Frankly I don't care about how hard it is here for new people.

You should be happy that new immigrants are looking for professional jobs, that way they'll no longer be taking the unskilled positions away from people like you.

Back on topic, I've been a lawyer for a few years, and I know that there is definitely a niche market out there for foreign educated lawyers that can deal with our growing ethnic communities. I can't speak fluent Tagalog, Russian, Mandarin, etc., but these people in our country still require lawyers. For minor things such as basic wills, land title searches, etc. I definitely think there is a need for foreign educated lawyers. I know many members of the Alberta Bar would disagree, but its not as if newly graduated lawyers are clamoring for these positions. Additionally, It's not as if a foreign educated Nigerian lawyer would be stealing high-finance clients away from me. Of course there needs to be accreditation, but does it have to be so rigid and formal? Not every lawyer is the same, not every lawyer requires the same degree of knowledge. I would welcome drastic change in this area.

As a side topic, I used to work as a petroleum engineer, and I know that foreign accreditation for engineers would open up a HUGE can of worms. Mainly because most engineering grads I know would likely have an extremely difficult time with a standardized technical exam. That APPEGGA exam is a puff-piece, and I think they want to keep it that way.

[fredr123]

Most trades and professions in Canada are ruled over by provincial bodies. APPEGA, the Law Society of Alberta, par example. That means that in a lot of cases it's not a single body (e.g., Citizenship and Immigration Canada) that determines whether an immigrant will be qualified to perform in their chosen occupation once they arrive in Canada but one of 10 or so provincial entities.

Even a lawyer in Alberta will have to overcome a number of hurdles in order to practice in another province in Canada. Granted, there are a number of agreements in place between provincial law societies that make this process less onerous in some circumstances but the fact remains that there are barriers preventing (or at least hindering) the free movement of even skilled Canadian workers between the provinces.

The problem is getting the myriad groups in each province to agree on a set of standards for licensing or equating new immigrants' qualifications upon arrival. CIC's point system is not designed to do that. They have no ability to say whether this engineer from Pakistan with a phd is qualified to work as an electrical engineer in Alberta or whether this nurse from Colombia can practice in British Columbia. It's not within the federal government's scope of powers to do so.

I think the way credentials are verified sucks and their needs to be greater efforts to reduce or eliminate these problems. To blame the problems principally on CIC while ignoring the lack of cooperation from the provincial bodies who have the final say in credentialing new immigrants is unfair.

[GlobeTrotter]

I don't know much about some professions like engineering or medicine, but it is very difficult to put law into this category. There are very few places in the world that have a legal system that is similar to the common law system in Canada.

The only equivalent systems are in places like the UK, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the US. We don't get a lot (relatively speaking) of immigration from these countries anyway.

Almost every other country uses the civil law system which is completely different than the common law system in Canada (except in Quebec).

For the most part, immigrants from Asia, Africa, Central and South America, and most of Continental Europe would need to be completely re-educated about the Canadian legal system. It simply is not a transferrable skill set.

It might be helpful to have more lawyers that speak languages other than english, but they won't be doing anyone a service if they don't understand the Canadian legal system.

[Ayrahb]

I (barely) make a living helping newcomers to Canada. When that article came out, I didn't pay much attention as I hear this every day at work. The media in Calgary, as well as nationally, cycles through these stories on a fairly regular basis. "Immigrants can't find professional jobs", "Alberta is experiencing a boom", Calgary is growing", "ER wait times are too long", etc. It's all been told and retold countless times.

I don't know Ms. Garcia-Herreros or her situation personally. Call me cynical, but my guess is that she came to Canada to get married and stay here, not to study. If she is attending a language course at Catholic Immigration Society, it must be Language Instruction for Newcomers to Canada (LINC) and that means that her English is not good enough to become a lawyer or even a legal assistant, for that matter. Probably not the best example for this type of article.