Teachers drop the Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims

[llama64]

Why is it that "some" Muslims are offended by the Holocast? Arn't they just perpetuating their racist attitudes towards the Jewish people?

Seriously, on any sort of rational ground, I don't understand how this could garner any traction.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Wow. That's really sad. You can't change history by ignoring, though as has been mentioned, you can repeat it. The thing that really bothers me about this is that it's the UK where this is taking place... somewhere so close to the holocaust, and yet they would avoid discussing it. I would like to say however, that I think many young muslims are aware of, and will continue to discuss the holocaust regardless of whether or not it is taught in school. Still, very sad that they would contemplate such a thing.

Sadly, you can. History is the greatest piece of fiction that humanity has ever written.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by llama64

Sadly, you can. History is the greatest piece of fiction that humanity has ever written.

Again with the being taken too literally thing... How about this:

There are 6 billion people on this earth aware of the holocaust. Whether they believe in it or not, they're aware of it. It would take a massive effort to delete the holocaust from history. Ignoring it will not accomplish that feat.

[Ford Prefect]

Political correctness offends me, deeply.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Slightly off topic, but this thread has reminded me of a film I watched in class the other day about Arab Jewish Communists. Pretty interesting stuff

[llama64]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Again with the being taken too literally thing... How about this:

There are 6 billion people on this earth aware of the holocaust. Whether they believe in it or not, they're aware of it. It would take a massive effort to delete the holocaust from history. Ignoring it will not accomplish that feat.

Sorry, I should of characterised my response better. I was just making an off-topic, general observation of history based on my training in it (BA History).

I didn't mean to imply that an event of the Holocaust's magnitute could be deleted from history. Rather, the specific details, the numbers invovled could be placed under scrutiny and debated until it became so smudged that no semblence of truth could be found.

Anyone who tries to deny the acts of Nazis Germany is living in a fantasy world, but one who questions the validity of the "truth" of the event stands on solid ground. That's all I was trying to point out. Blame it on me getting up at 6am

[redforever]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm not an expert on Islam by any stretch of the imagination, but is Holocaust denial an actual religious belief or is it a cultural belief held by many people in countries where the people also happen to be muslims?

It's a subtle but important difference.

Does it matter if it is cultural or religious? The fact of the matter is, most will take this action by the British education system as a form of appeasement to the Muslims. Sadly, appeasement is never the answer. Education should not only be focusing on the atrocity of the Holocaust, but about recent and present day atrocities as well.

By the way, did you know that the British penal system is rearranging many of the bathrooms in the prisons so that the Muslims will be facing the right way (east I think, sorry if it is another) when they urinate? That made the news about a month ago.

And yes, there is a whole lot wrong with the education system. It seems that the focus today is on making it interesting, dont bore the little dearies. The curriculum or method of teaching is too much like Sesame Street. Introduce some concept, 5 minutes later, ding ding ding, I see some are losing focus, on to another concept, 3 minutes later, the little dearies are getting bored again, ding ding ding, got to change the subject again.

Yes, chronological age will dictate to a certain extent how long to stay on one concept. But we should try and remember that the focus of education should be to teach first, entertain second. Now a good teacher will be able to do both and keep the attention of their students of course.

But so often now, subjects are so truncated. And to keep them interesting, in history they seem to jump around all over the world, trying to teach a bit of this and a bit of that, and in the end, you teach a whole lot of nothing. You dont know who you are as a society or a country and you wont know where you are going until you first find out where you came from. Sadly, Canadian history as presently taught does not do much of that. And it is indeed sad that as an end result, we know so very very little about our own country and we seem to have so little national pride. Perhaps we have national pride and we are apathetic about it, however, that does not make the situation much better. We so often seem to be a country that does not know where it is going. And when that happens, you eventually will set yourself up for some takeover and then in retrospect, will wonder how it could have happened.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Political correctness offends me, deeply.

They should quit teaching it!

Strange thing is, we had a German exchange student in Grade 12, and she often mentioned how much the Germans stress teaching about the Holocaust.

Its something they hate as being part of their history, but something they stress so that it doesn't happen again.

If anyone should be offended, shouldn't it be the Germans?

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Azure

They should quit teaching it!

Strange thing is, we had a German exchange student in Grade 12, and she often mentioned how much the Germans stress teaching about the Holocaust.

Its something they hate as being part of their history, but something they stress so that it doesn't happen again.

If anyone should be offended, shouldn't it be the Germans?

The Germans are infact the leaders in Holocaust research.

This type of stuff amazes me. My girlfriend is looking to quit teaching because of how teaches has evolved into a "love the student" and "offend no one".

[Rathji]

I am offended by the mistreatment of Japanese Canadians during WW2, I think it should be removed from the curriculum.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Azure

They should quit teaching it!

Strange thing is, we had a German exchange student in Grade 12, and she often mentioned how much the Germans stress teaching about the Holocaust.

Its something they hate as being part of their history, but something they stress so that it doesn't happen again.

If anyone should be offended, shouldn't it be the Germans?

I'm not quite sure what you mean Azure. If you mean schools should quit teaching poltical correctness, or politically correct doctrines, I agree. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean as far as it relates to my comment about disliking political correctness in general.

[eazyduzzit]

Who cares about offending Muslims.

They get worked up about the most passive of subjects.

What happened to the whole concept of looking like a total bigot when you deny the holocaust? Now it seems you might have laws passed in your favor.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I'm not quite sure what you mean Azure. If you mean schools should quit teaching poltical correctness, or politically correct doctrines, I agree. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean as far as it relates to my comment about disliking political correctness in general.

I think we're on the same page.

[llama64]

The question I want answered is why the heck Muslims even give a poop about the holocast. The only connection I can fathom is Israel, but even then that country was founded before Hitler instituded the death camps. What about the holocast is offensive to a muslim?

Shouldn't they be more offended that the west sees them all as terrorists?

[Cowboy89]

This isn't about 'offending muslims,' this is about Muslim religious leaders using our own softness on political correctness against us. Think about it, if they can get subsequent western generations to be totally ignorant of the holocaust then we'll stand idelyby as they spread their anti-jewish hate and violence in the future.

[Muta]

I would like to know whether this movement of 'denying the Holocaust' generally began BEFORE or AFTER Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's comments a while ago.

I think denial and ignorance is incredibly disrespectful to the millions who lost their lives during the Second World War, and the even more millions who were in some capacity involved in it, whether they wanted to be or not. I'm sure if my Grandpa could go back and change history instead of completely suffering trying to defend Poland from the invading Nazis, he would. But denial is not that route.

I'm Catholic, but the political sway religions wield their swords with these days is apalling, and frankly, embarrassing.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

This isn't about 'offending muslims,' this is about Muslim religious leaders using our own softness on political correctness against us. Think about it, if they can get subsequent western generations to be totally ignorant of the holocaust then we'll stand idelyby as they spread their anti-jewish hate and violence in the future.

I think you vastly misunderstand muslim culture and their intentions...

I'm pretty sure this descision was made by a Western influenced person, not by some secret underground Muslim organization bent on subverting the West into their liking. No.. that organization tends to be loud and "explosive" in their actions.

[RougeUnderoos]

The report concluded: "In particular settings, teachers of history are unwilling to challenge highly contentious or charged versions of history in which pupils are steeped at home, in their community or in a place of worship."

This is a terrible new phenomenon. Purchase your plastic sheeting and duct tape now, for surely the Muslim hordes are coming.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

What similar events? I know that today you won't find creation theory taught in many schools or even problems with the theory of evolution. I know when Darwin first published his theory it was debated public ally both in England and America. News papers publish the contents of the debates rather then interpreting the results. From my prospective evolutionist have been far more guilty of silencing the exchange of ideas than creationists.

I would just draw some parallels from this situation and the situation of creationism being taught in the States. That they are both religiously motivated. I don't want to throw this thread into a evolution/creation debate. But as far as modern science is concerned. Evolution is the predominate theory and is considered to be correct. Creationism was not being taught for a reason. The way it was presented in the States was that in terms of scientific reasoning evolution and creation are on the same level, which is not the case.

If you feel that creationism is being "silenced" there is probably a good reason for it. The evidence is not very good. I went to that site you linked to me a couple weeks ago, and read quite a bit on it. Frankly I was not impressed. Most of the "scientist and experts" were from Religious universities, which just reeks of bias. Secondly poking holes in evolution is not proof of creationism. Thirdly they painted scientists who supported evolution that they start off their investigation by thinking "ok god doesn't exist, so how I can prove my hypothesis based on this?" When creationist scientists start off way, way more biased that other scientists.

Anyways. The point I am trying to make is that creationism and not teaching the Holocaust is just religious bullying. Both sides are not looking at evidence or using logical reasoning but instead they have their "faith blinders" on. Not teaching the Holocaust is worse than teaching creationism. Teaching creationism supports poor education, where as not teaching the Holocaust in this case is basically supporting their ostracism's.

If you get a chance some time find an old set of encyclopedias dated before 1950. You'll find a huge difference between it and a modern encyclopedia. Christianity's influence on historical events has been omitted or only mentioned when it is seen in a bad light in the last half century..

Not sure how this makes your point. How do I not know that Christianity shouldn't be painted in a bad light? Maybe because Christians are not writing these encyclopedias anymore is why they are not seen in good light. What are you getting at?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Think about it, if they can get subsequent western generations to be totally ignorant of the holocaust then we'll stand idelyby as they spread their anti-jewish hate and violence in the future.

Okay I've thought about it and after all that thinking I ended up with the following question: do you really believe it's possible that "subsequent western generations" will be duped by a few crappy pommie schoolteachers and some dimwitted religious nuts into forgetting about the holocaust?