All Hail King Ralph!!

[The Goon]

What if you hate both governments?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by The Goon@Oct 26 2004, 03:53 PM
What if you hate both governments?

You should join the Bloc, they make a point not to like anyone.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Oct 26 2004, 08:26 AM
Snakeeye here is what I don't understand, someone works their entire life, and works really hard, makes a great deal of money, why shouldn't they be able to spend it the way that they want. No-one complains when they send their children to a better school, or pay for their childrens wisdom teeth to get taken out/get othadontics (braces as I can't spell), so why are they forced to sit and wait in line. They worked for their money, so why shouldn't they be able to spend some money, and well get whatever needs to be done, done. In fact I would say that this might benifit the regular joe who now has smaller wait times due to the fact that there are fewer people in the line.

Also from my experiences (and those of my family) we have never had a problem, and in fact we have many good stories to tell about the system...

Myth # 867 about the Canadian Health Care system - everyone has the same access under our current system.

To your point Mustard, people with even a small amount of wealth (relatively) do spend their money on health care. They just spend it south of the border or overseas. There's a great article in Avenue Magazine (I think it is) about that this month.

We have a two tier system - arguably 3 if you include those with insider access/knowledge - its just not transparent.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Oct 26 2004, 08:39 AM
This oil/healthcare and liberal/social/conservative debate can usually be summed up by identifying what you believe in.

Are you an Albertan first or a Canadian first? Depending on how you answer that question will probably intensly colour the way you view the provincial and federal governments... and their competency.

Careful.

Are you suggesting that someone is less of an canadian because they favour conservatives over liberals? Isn't it a bit of a chicken and egg thing?

A small c conservative is naturally going to ideintify more with the provincial government than the national government but that may have a lot more to do with their policies than geography.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Oct 26 2004, 08:26 AM
Snakeeye here is what I don't understand, someone works their entire life, and works really hard, makes a great deal of money, why shouldn't they be able to spend it the way that they want. No-one complains when they send their children to a better school, or pay for their childrens wisdom teeth to get taken out/get othadontics (braces as I can't spell), so why are they forced to sit and wait in line. They worked for their money, so why shouldn't they be able to spend some money, and well get whatever needs to be done, done. In fact I would say that this might benifit the regular joe who now has smaller wait times due to the fact that there are fewer people in the line.

Also from my experiences (and those of my family) we have never had a problem, and in fact we have many good stories to tell about the system...

I never made any statements against a hybrid health system. In fact, I support it. So far, the only thing being done by either Klein or Martin is to throw money at an unworkable system.

While the last thing we want or need is the American style HMO system, surely there is a place for private health care in this country to lessen the burden on the system as a whole.

[northernflame]

"Although I respect what Ralph has done, I think anybody with a grade 9 education could make this province as succesful as it is today do to the economic times. He has done great things. But for the same reasons you guys love the Provincial Conservatives you seem to hate the Federal Liberals. Our Conservatives (Provincially) have done some pretty corrupt things, yet you don't hear anything, not a peep. Our health care is in shambles, and we are mysteriously missing. The majority of the board here jumped all over the Liberals for miss spending money, I think what everybody was really mad at is that the miss spent money was not spent on us spoiled Albertans.

It amazes me how everybody hates the Liberals and calls them corrupt yet they vote Klein in every year
(I might vote for him, but at least I am not being two faced about the corrupt politics that goes on in this country) "

Good post.

Many on this board argued also that the Liberals had been in power too long, and that a change of the guard might be a good thing for Canadians as a whole.

Doesn't that mean that changing the governing party of Alberta might also be a good thing?

[arsenal]

Originally posted by northernflame@Oct 26 2004, 11:44 AM
Good post.

Many on this board argued also that the Liberals had been in power too long, and that a change of the guard might be a good thing for Canadians as a whole.

Doesn't that mean that changing the governing party of Alberta might also be a good thing?

Nope. The reason that many from out west complain about the Federal Liberals, is becuase 1) They are Liberals 2) Feeling of being ostrisized from the rest of the country.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. We view the Federal system is broken. In case you have been living under a rock for the past 10 years, the west has voted completely opposite from the rest of the country. We have tried to get the Federal Gov't changed, but can't due to a failed voting system.
Yes the Liberals have been in power too long. Now with a minority gov't, the Liberals have to appease, or force a vote of no confidence. So, in reality, the Federal gov't is now more moderate than past liberal gov'ts.

Alberta's gov't is not percieved as broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. The last thing I want is a Liberal or NDP party in power, to mis-spend the province's money, getting us back into debt. It doesn't mean that it is going to happen, just beucase the party is Liberal. It is probably more likely to happen under a Liberal party than a PC party.

[Bertuzzied]

We want Ralph back as mayor to replace that Bronco jackass.
Too bad Ontarioians hate his guts. He would make an excellent Prime Minister.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+Oct 26 2004, 05:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ Oct 26 2004, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Oct 26 2004, 08:26 AM
Snakeeye here is what I don't understand, someone works their entire life, and works really hard, makes a great deal of money, why shouldn't they be able to spend it the way that they want. No-one complains when they send their children to a better school, or pay for their childrens wisdom teeth to get taken out/get othadontics (braces as I can't spell), so why are they forced to sit and wait in line. They worked for their money, so why shouldn't they be able to spend some money, and well get whatever needs to be done, done. In fact I would say that this might benifit the regular joe who now has smaller wait times due to the fact that there are fewer people in the line.

Also from my experiences (and those of my family) we have never had a problem, and in fact we have many good stories to tell about the system...

I never made any statements against a hybrid health system. In fact, I support it. So far, the only thing being done by either Klein or Martin is to throw money at an unworkable system.

While the last thing we want or need is the American style HMO system, surely there is a place for private health care in this country to lessen the burden on the system as a whole. [/b][/quote]
Sorry I think I worded that poorly, what I really meant to say was that I was agreeing with you. I think that there is a happy medium that can be achieved, and while it may be a bit scary for the majority of the population to step out from what they have known all their life in terms of health care, it could actually turn out for the better. Is it a bit risky? Yes it is. However do the possible rewards outweigh the risks, I would have to answer yes they do.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by northernflame@Oct 26 2004, 10:44 AM
Good post.

Many on this board argued also that the Liberals had been in power too long, and that a change of the guard might be a good thing for Canadians as a whole.

Doesn't that mean that changing the governing party of Alberta might also be a good thing?

Change for the sake of change is never a good thing.

Taft's entire strategy is to slander his way though the campaign, and he has already been caught telling mistruths. A plan of action the federal arm of the province has used quite often.

The NDP is never an option. Most NDP governments leave their province in worse shape than they got it.

And I am guessing you dont support Klein, so I doubt the Alliance is an option to you either.

The rest of the parties are a wasted vote for anyone looking for change.

[The Goon]

I am looking forward to four more years of drunken harrassment of the homeless!

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by arsenal@Oct 26 2004, 06:21 AM
There are no wait times in the US, but you pay through the teeh. Conversely, you don't pay anything in Canada, but you deal with long wait times.

No wait times in the US? Where the hell is that? I pay $12K a year for health insurance and I get to have my service provider dictated to me AND wait in line for an appointment. That fallacy of not having to wait for service in the US is so much BS. You have just as long a wait in the US as you do in Canada, especially at facilities that take the public. Unless you are JD Moneybags you do NOT have access to quick medical attention. God forbid you actually need to see a specialist where the demand is high and the supply minimal. You can die waiting as people with more money or better insurance get bumped past you. Healtcare is a business down here and being paid is the number one priority. Damn the hippocratic oath!

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Oct 26 2004, 07:44 AM
On the health care situation, look higher than Alberta. It was the federal liberals who chose to rape health care so they could balance the budget, while also blaming any province that didnt deficit spend to cover the shortfall for health care problems.

Go live in a socialist province for a while and tell me the system is any better.

As it is, for every horror story, there are ten where the system works fine. I ended up in the hospital for a gall-bladder problem a month ago, and I was in to see a doctor in 15 minutes. They knew what was wrong within an hour, and I was free to go after three. System worked perfectly fine for me. It has worked perfectly fine for everyone I know.

But, the Federal Liberals answer to health care problems was to blame the provinces. Now that they are stuck in a minority situation, they are throwing money at the problem. Agree or disagree with what Klein is tried to do with Bill 11, at least the provincial government recognizes the problem, and is trying to do something.

You would have been better off arguing that it has as much to do with the Federal govt as it does the provincial govt.

^This was in my post before.


I have fully admited that I am not 100% against Ralph but everybody gives him a break for being drunk and going to homeless shelter, taking his plane to a resort golf course outside Halifax while he was in Halifax, or going to a Casino when all the other premieres are out representing there province. They waste alot of money as well, I excuse it, because I excuse it some when the Liberals do it. I just don't know why many vote for Ralph, for the same reason they WON't vote for Martin...

Halifax Resort

http://www.edmontonriverview.com/QPExcerpt...xHarb'r.htm

I think whats more embarassing is how he responds...if this happened to the Liberals everybody would be all over them. Oh and for a little insight on the Golf Course, it is $250 a round, I know someone who has played there

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Cowboy@Oct 26 2004, 05:29 PM
I just don't know why many vote for Ralph, for the same reason they WON't vote for Martin...

For one very, very simple reason. Ralph has been good for Alberta. Martin has not been good for Alberta.

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+Oct 26 2004, 06:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ Oct 26 2004, 06:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowboy@Oct 26 2004, 05:29 PM
I just don't know why many vote for Ralph, for the same reason they WON't vote for Martin...

For one very, very simple reason. Ralph has been good for Alberta. Martin has not been good for Alberta. [/b][/quote]
Thats because most Albertans Identify themselves as Albertans before Canadians, and I would even say Calgarians before either of the two. Who says its Alberta's oil and not Canada's oil.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Cowboy+Oct 26 2004, 06:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowboy @ Oct 26 2004, 06:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

For one very, very simple reason. Ralph has been good for Alberta. Martin has not been good for Alberta.

Thats because most Albertans Identify themselves as Albertans before Canadians, and I would even say Calgarians before either of the two. Who says its Alberta's oil and not Canada's oil. [/b][/quote]
I do.

How's that?

I'd be all for this "what's mine is yours" stuff it actually worked that way. It doesn't. It's a "what's yours is ours, but what's mine is mine" system. You think Joe Quebecois would be willing to give it up if things were going the other way? If they find themselves on top of the golden goose, they won't be shipping any eggs our way if/when we need them.

[moon]

I vote for Klein because I agree with his policies and political platform. I don't vote for the Federal liberals because I think their policies and platforms are crap and don't agree with them at all. It has nothing to do with letting Ralph get away with stuff that I blame the Liberals for.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Cowboy+Oct 26 2004, 05:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowboy @ Oct 26 2004, 05:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

For one very, very simple reason. Ralph has been good for Alberta. Martin has not been good for Alberta.

Thats because most Albertans Identify themselves as Albertans before Canadians, and I would even say Calgarians before either of the two. Who says its Alberta's oil and not Canada's oil. [/b][/quote]
I agree. I've said it before, but I consider myself an Albertan first because the rest of Canada often doesnt make me feel Canadian. Being as how I am a neo-conservative, racist, America-loving, hompphobic bigot and all.

However, it is Alberta's oil and not Canada's oil. We have a constitutional right to our oil.

[ricosuave]

Say what you want about Ralph, but it was his office that righted the ship after the debaucle of the Getty, and previous governments.

Of course, cuts had to be made - you didnt like paying high taxes did you? How else was that to be done, by magic? People need to be less greedy and think big picture. When did humanity become so damn dependant?!

I am amazed at the ignorance and head-in-the-sand of some people, particularly teachers and anyone in health care. I often think that if some of the Klein haters had everything they wanted, it still wouldnt be enough.

It used to be worse. Way worse. Feel privleged that we live in a province with the resources and management that will carry us through for a long time. We are a model, and the envy if a lot of governments. No need to ruin it all now.

rico

[AvengeR]

I already requested a large Richard Magnus lawn sign. I'm hoping for a PC sweep, but that won't happen because of Edmonton. I believe that of all the opposition mla's, only 1 is not from Edmonton. I wonder if ther has every been a government where no opposition members got elected at all.