Cameron documentary claims to have found Jesus' Tomb. Oh, and dead body too... - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

metallicat · 02-25-2007, 01:33 PM

So when exactly is this program airing? Do Canadians with Discovery Channel on HD still have to wait until March to see this?

kermitology · 02-25-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't know what to believe.

First of all, Cowperson posted a few articles a while back saying that there is no historical evidence that the Jesus from the Bible ever existed.

Now Cameron comes along and says he existed, but was never resurrected?

The question is not whether or not Jesus existed, but if he was the son of God. If Cameron is right, and I think that will be VERY hard to prove, then it's contradictory to a lot of biblical "history"

Igottago · 02-25-2007, 01:59 PM

It doesn't really matter if Cameron is in fact, right (i'm not sure that he is). Even if he has found the body of Christ, there will be too many people in denial of it. He could have undeniable evidence, and people would still write it off. The christian establishment would give it no credence. People believe what they want to believe. People still believe in creationism for god's sake.

getbak · 02-25-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

So when exactly is this program airing? Do Canadians with Discovery Channel on HD still have to wait until March to see this?

Apparently it will be airing on Vision TV in Canada (it looks like it was at least partially funded by Vision).

I wonder what the DNA will say about Jesus's paternity?

metallicat · 02-25-2007, 02:05 PM

What is this Vision TV? I've never heard of it before.

getbak · 02-25-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

What is this Vision TV? I've never heard of it before.

It's Canada's "faith" network. It's been on the air for almost 20 years. It's channel 91 on Shaw in Calgary.

Azure · 02-25-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kermitology

The question is not whether or not Jesus existed, but if he was the son of God. If Cameron is right, and I think that will be VERY hard to prove, then it's contradictory to a lot of biblical "history"

You'll never be able to 'prove' that Jesus was the Son of God.

You believe that through faith, not evidence.

kermitology · 02-25-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

You'll never be able to 'prove' that Jesus was the Son of God.

You believe that through faith, not evidence.

Yeah.. what's you're point? That faith stems from the words of the bible.

Winsor_Pilates · 02-25-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

You'll never be able to 'prove' that Jesus was the Son of God.

You believe that through faith, not evidence.

Exactly

This is quite interesting stuff, but all this talk of evidence is a waste of time. Religion has nothing to do with evidence.

If a belief system is not based in evidence in the first place, then evidence won't be used to change it.

Azure · 02-25-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kermitology

Yeah.. what's you're point? That faith stems from the words of the bible.

Yes, so whats the point of trying to 'prove' Christianity correct?

Or incorrect for that matter.

kermitology · 02-25-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Yes, so whats the point of trying to 'prove' Christianity correct?

Validation of being right or something like that?

I don't know. I'm agnostic so proving Christianity or disproving it means nothing to me. I don't think it's BS, but I don't think it's right either. But I wasn't talking about proving Christianity right, but more that he sounds like he's trying to prove that parts of Christianity are built upon "fantasy"

photon · 02-25-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Wait a minute, up till now I thought Jesus never existed?

Now he does?

So we just move the goalposts this time around?

It's only moving the goalposts if it's a single person/group doing it.

There's lots of people who say there's compelling evidence for a historical Jesus and lots who say there isn't, all of whom have put FAR more time then I ever could into the research. So it's difficult to know which is "correct" and not just believe what I'm biased to believe.

flames85 · 02-25-2007, 06:02 PM

people who have a strong faith don't question Jesus' existence, they already know he is real. if you want proof give it a shot for youself.

Displaced Flames fan · 02-25-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igottago

People believe what they want to believe. People still believe in creationism for god's sake.

You must be one of those that believes creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive.

Too many people on both 'sides' of the issue are too closed minded.

I tend to believe that it is possible that we can't comprehend how the hell this all started.

RougeUnderoos · 02-25-2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

You must be one of those that believes creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive.

Too many people on both 'sides' of the issue are too closed minded.

I tend to believe that it is possible that we can't comprehend how the hell this all started.

"Creationism" is a pretty shaky word. How would you define it?

The mainstream or popular definition beliefs of creationsts (young earth, the garden, the big boat et cetera [correct me if I'm wrong,]) is pretty wild. The theory of evolution and "creationism" are mutually exclusive.

FireFly · 02-25-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

"Creationism" is a pretty shaky word. How would you define it?

The mainstream or popular definition beliefs of creationsts (young earth, the garden, the big boat et cetera [correct me if I'm wrong,]) is pretty wild. The theory of evolution and "creationism" are mutually exclusive.

If everything is black and white, you're right. If there are shades of grey, you're wrong.

What if the world was created with evolution in mind? What if God knew that fish would one day walk, etc? Not so much mutually exclusive then.

I think that was his point though. Too many people think of creationism as strictly "God created the world as it is today" and evolution as "the world was created with the big bang and evolved from there." What if God created the big bang?

Displaced Flames fan · 02-25-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

"Creationism" is a pretty shaky word. How would you define it?

The mainstream or popular definition beliefs of creationsts (young earth, the garden, the big boat et cetera [correct me if I'm wrong,]) is pretty wild. The theory of evolution and "creationism" are mutually exclusive.

Explain to me how believing in evolution discounts that a higher power(God or otherwise) had something to do with it. and/or Explain to me how a belief in a creator discounts the theory of evolution.

photon · 02-25-2007, 07:18 PM

True, when talking about creationism, you have to be clear what kind of creationism you are talking about.. Some think that the earth is 6,000 years old, some don't. Some think God is the "watchmaker" that put everything in motion (and as an aside, if God is the person who put everything in motion, doesn't that preclude a personal God? If God's creation was perfect then there would be no need for intervention, but if he does intervene then creation wasn't perfect.. anyway..)

However a creationist has to be careful, they can be guilty of moving the goalposts... If they believe that God created everything in 6 24 hour days, but then in light of evolution and all that evidence they accept that evolution is true, but put abiogenesis in God's hands, then we discover plausible mechanisms for first life, then the goalposts are moved back to the big bang.. then we discover the cause of the big bang, then the goalposts are moved back to the creation of the multiverse of universes, etc etc...

I was talking with someone last night who claimed it was impossible to be a Christian and NOT believe in a 6000 year old earth, and if they did they weren't Christian.

photon · 02-25-2007, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Explain to me how believing in evolution discounts that a higher power(God or otherwise) had something to do with it. and/or Explain to me how a belief in a creator discounts the theory of evolution.

I think some Christians would argue that believing in evolution means that one isn't taking the Bible 100% literally in the stories of creation or the flood, and therefore aren't "real" Christians (whatever that means).

So maybe it's more believing in evolution discounts the 100% literal interpretation of the Bible and 100% interpretation discounts evolution?

FireFly · 02-25-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

I was talking with someone last night who claimed it was impossible to be a Christian and NOT believe in a 6000 year old earth, and if they did they weren't Christian.

Part of the problem many Christians have is trying to take what was written in a way people could understand 2000 years ago, and apply it to today. I mean, Noah didn't live for 900 years. We know that. So what would people 2000 years ago have figured 900 years to be? 900 moon cycles? 900 seasons? The same can be applied to many aspects of the Bible. THere just isn't a whole heck of a lot you can take literally when it comes to things written 2000 years ago. You have to factor in the lack of language of the time, in addition to human error. I mean really, if you had told people 2000 years ago there were such things as dinosaurs, what do you think their response would be? How long ago was it that the earth was flat? Knowledge keeps moving forward and with it so does language, but the Bible has basically remain untouched for 2000 years.