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Old 10-16-2004, 04:58 PM   #21
Agamemnon
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flame On+Oct 16 2004, 10:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Oct 16 2004, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-sjwalter@Oct 16 2004, 10:50 PM
I don't understand what you mean with assertions. The only assertion i've made is that everything i said is what the media came up with.

Call it fact or opinion, but i won't deny thats its the truth.
I think most here stopped reading your post at "I don't understand" and are in full agreement with you there. Anyone dispute this?[/b][/quote]
Hit the nail on the head.
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Old 10-16-2004, 05:09 PM   #22
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An ABC Nightline investigation of the Kerry Swiftboat incident. They travel to Vietnam and question Vietnamese eyewitnesses.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Vote2004/s...d=166434&page=1

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Old 10-16-2004, 05:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Agamemnon+Oct 16 2004, 03:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Oct 16 2004, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sjwalter@Oct 16 2004, 10:50 PM
I don't understand what you mean with assertions.# The only assertion i've made is that everything i said is what the media came up with.

Call it fact or opinion, but i won't deny thats its the truth.
Glad to oblige :P

In this thread you've made assertions. You've 'recalled' that Kerry was involved in atrocities. This 'recollection' is spurious. You've heard there are allegations that he 'did something bad', and you've apparently guessed that he was involved in a massacre. Unless you mean by 'atrocities' testifying against the war in court.

You've said that Kerry would "do anything to be elected President". Explain and prove this. Would he kill someone?

You called Kerry a "coward who runs home after self comending himself for the Purple Hearts so he can be discharged and go home and lead the Anti-War protests". How did he commend himself for a Purple Heart? By getting wounded? Do you know what a purple heart is?

You claim that Kerry thinks of terrorists as "a nuisance, right?". If you'd bother to listen to him, I'm sure he's never claimed that they were a "nuisance".

You call it fact, sounds good.

I know it's your opinion, regardless of your 'facts'.

Also, not to nitpick, but maybe spend an extra 2 seconds on your grammar. You've got some double negatives and mispoken sentences that make it difficult to understand what you're saying. [/b][/quote]
Thanks for the reply, i still have to learn.

What i mean with the atrocities is that Kerry stood before Congress and stated what was happened in Vietnam and the crimes going on, we all know that right?

Thats fact.

He also said that he himself was involved in the crimes, which makes it hard for me to understand why he was confessing to Congress, because if these crimes are indeed true and if he was along in them, then what makes him any better then the others.

You've said that Kerry would "do anything to be elected President". Explain and prove this. Would he kill someone?

Kerry mentioned Dick Cheney's daughter's sexuality in the last debete and if you've been following the election and polls Kerry is suffering because of it. Why does he mention this? He's trying to get the votes from the gay community by never openly saying that he is against homosexuality, but by also never saying he is for it he is trying to get support from those against it. And the fact that he stated the remark about Cheney's daughter shows in a way the he doesn't have many moral ethics.

I say this because regardless of who you are up against and what the question was, he is running for President, and to me a candidate shouldn't ever mention in person the sexuality of another person. Who's to say he wouldn't do it again in the future. Also we all know how the media is saying he flip flops back and forth between his decisons and has lied (some are facts others probably not) before, to me shows that he will do anything to get support from the people of America to become President.

Did he ever give us his real plan for America? Probably but he mentions "i have a plan" more then actually saying what his plan is. I haven't followed the election much, but enough to try and figure out what each candidate stands for. Bush openly confesses that he is a Christian man and adheres to those Principles. Kerry says he Catholic and i won't argue with that, but Catholics, (the Pope) are against homosexuality openly and don't want any part of it, yet Kerry saying he is Catholic can't make up his mind. He will do and say anything to get the votes from the people, just to become President.

Most of that was opinion.

Statements have been realeased that Kerry wrote the report on the incident that lead him to recieve the Purple Heart. Who's to say he never stetched the truth a little. And considering the fact that he went home and joined the Anti-war protest, lets me believe that he wanted out of Vietnam, so why wouldn't he file those reports knowing he would get discharged with another Purple Heart.

And a purple heart is awarded to people who have been wounded in combat.

I said before the comment about the terrorists are a nuisance was taken from a source that streched the truth a little, and it just popped into my mind.

Many things which i say about Kerry is my own opinion, mainly because i believe that he shouldn't be the one with his finger on America's Nuclear Trigger. But everything can be backed up.....to a point....fact.....from a source whether proven or not.

I love to debate with you, glad you came back and asked questions.
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Old 10-16-2004, 06:05 PM   #24
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Sj

You have stated non fact and repeated it as thus.

She is a very out lesbian. And he did that to expose the xenophobia the GOP holds as a core value with THIS administration.

What about Bush's lie that he never took his eye off of Osama Bin Laden, even though he's seen dismissing him as a threat some 16 months before September 11?

Do some research and find out the substance behind these "talking points" (mostly distortions or lies) before committing yourself to debate. You'll get slaughtered....
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Old 10-16-2004, 06:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheCommodoreAfro@Oct 17 2004, 12:05 AM
She is a very out lesbian. And he did that to expose the xenophobia the GOP holds as a core value with THIS administration.
I disagree 'Fro, I think Kerry had different motives for selecting Cheney's daughter as an example in the "gay debate". He selected Cheney's daughter for a very specific reason. To me that reason was to put a face to the "gay issue" for the Republicans out there and for them to deal with their homophobic ways once and for all. To me this is why the Republicans are so p*ssed about it. Kerry didn't "out" Cheney's daughter, he "outed" the whole Republican party. This is no longer an issue that they can snidely ignore and call a liberal problem. This problem has come home to roost and in the higest places. This is why Republicans are so upset about this. They now HAVE to deal with the issue that they hoped to ignore.
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Old 10-16-2004, 06:54 PM   #26
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Lanny please put sj in his place... Not even Dis would go so far as to post these known falsehoods and attempted smears about Kerry.

Do you get most of your political information from the mouth of GW and swiftboat ads?
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Old 10-16-2004, 06:57 PM   #27
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Hey Lanny do you think the Democrats would have had the same reply?

You're right in a way because the issue has been avoided until now, but that still doesn't give Kerry the right say it.

Bush could have easily attacked Kerry's wife on a number of occasions but didn't.

She is an open Lesbian, we all know that but that doen't mean the possible future president has to be publicly saying it, or does he have a habit of doing that?

There is a fine line on homosexuality and Kerry hasn't figured it out yet.
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Old 10-16-2004, 06:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaramonLS@Oct 16 2004, 05:54 PM
Lanny please put sj in his place... Not even Dis would go so far as to post these known falsehoods and attempted smears about Kerry.

Do you get most of your political information from the mouth of GW and swiftboat ads?
And you get your information from Kerry's words right.

I know my place.

And how do you know its false? I don't think its been proven false and its someones opinion.

I'm entitled to my opinion am i not?
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:04 PM   #29
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Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 17 2004, 12:57 AM
Hey Lanny do you think the Democrats would have had the same reply?

You're right in a way because the issue has been avoided until now, but that still doesn't give Kerry the right say it.

Bush could have easily attacked Kerry's wife on a number of occasions but didn't.

She is an open Lesbian, we all know that but that doen't mean the possible future president has to be publicly saying it, or does he have a habit of doing that?

There is a fine line on homosexuality and Kerry hasn't figured it out yet.
Since when is talking about someone who is an open lesbian wrong?

Not to mention it was in response to a question whether or not being gay is a choice, and Kerry simply directed Bush to go talk to a certain person. Because Bush said he really doesn't know.

I can tell you I take issue with Bush's comments because a friend of mine is gay (came out when he was 19) and hes told me on numerous occasions he has tried to be straight, but he is simply not attracted to girls. Kerry was completely in the right to try to put Bush and the Republican party in its place.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by sjwalter+Oct 17 2004, 12:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sjwalter @ Oct 17 2004, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaramonLS@Oct 16 2004, 05:54 PM
Lanny please put sj in his place... Not even Dis would go so far as to post these known falsehoods and attempted smears about Kerry.

Do you get most of your political information from the mouth of GW and swiftboat ads?
And you get your information from Kerry's words right.

I know my place.

And how do you know its false? I don't think its been proven false and its someones opinion.

I'm entitled to my opinion am i not? [/b][/quote]
Site your sources then.

Because if Swiftboat happens to be one of them, I can discredit that right now.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:20 PM   #31
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SJ
What are these atrocities that Kerry committed. Please explain your alternative universe viewpoints to us so we can keep tabs on what is happening in the anit-verse.

If your views are as commonly held as I suspect they are, this world is in big trouble.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:44 PM   #32
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I think some people are confused with John Kerry and the former senator Bob Kerrey who committed atrocities in Vietnam.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:50 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaramonLS+Oct 16 2004, 06:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaramonLS @ Oct 16 2004, 06:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Quote:
Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 17 2004, 12:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-CaramonLS
Quote:
@Oct 16 2004, 05:54 PM
Lanny please put sj in his place... Not even Dis would go so far as to post these known falsehoods and attempted smears about Kerry.

Do you get most of your political information from the mouth of GW and swiftboat ads?

And you get your information from Kerry's words right.

I know my place.

And how do you know its false? I don't think its been proven false and its someones opinion.

I'm entitled to my opinion am i not?
Site your sources then.

Because if Swiftboat happens to be one of them, I can discredit that right now. [/b][/quote]
And how so?
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:54 PM   #34
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Swiftboat is wrong, have you seen their ad's? Were you in Vietnam to discredit them?

I'm sure if someone came up with ads against Bush you would support them 100 percent even if they were complete BS.

And here,

http://www.mindspring.com/~indguard/buschantiwar.html
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:04 PM   #35
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That site looks pretty amateur. I sure wouldn't cite it as a valid source for anything.

No to mention, it is openly biased. All you have to do is check out their home page:

http://www.mindspring.com/~indguard/publiusforum.html
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 17 2004, 01:54 AM
Swiftboat is wrong, have you seen their ad's? Were you in Vietnam to discredit them?

I'm sure if someone came up with ads against Bush you would support them 100 percent even if they were complete BS.

And here,

http://www.mindspring.com/~indguard/buschantiwar.html
Wow are you even being serious? I know you are new, but I dont know a single person here who hangs on John Kerry's word with every breath and would support complete lies about George Bush.

And the funny thing about the Swiftboat ads... they weren't even in Vietnam with Kerry, the one that was actually on the same swiftboat as Kerry infact made a statement in '91 saying the exact Opposite of what he is saying now.

You know not everyone is completely blinded by the facts and totally anti-Bush, use your head man and don't site same useless site like that which was clearly put up by some 16 year old with very mild HTML skills.

Not even a single Citiation of references throughout the paper.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Oct 17 2004, 01:44 AM
I think some people are confused with John Kerry and the former senator Bob Kerrey who committed atrocities in Vietnam.
John Kerry admitted to comitting attrocities in Vietnam....in front of the Senate in 1971.

Just a point...not getting into the argument.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan+Oct 17 2004, 02:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Displaced Flames fan @ Oct 17 2004, 02:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAddiction@Oct 17 2004, 01:44 AM
I think some people are confused with John Kerry and the former senator Bob Kerrey who committed atrocities in Vietnam.
John Kerry admitted to comitting attrocities in Vietnam....in front of the Senate in 1971.

Just a point...not getting into the argument.[/b][/quote]
Wow. Thats the kind of stuff that would put me against Kerry.

Can you link to a source where Kerry admits he (personally) committed atrocities?

It's one thing to have 'been there' when they happened, and another completely to have 'pulled the trigger'.

If this is true, why haven't the Republicans been all over this? Seems like this would be a KO knockout... and an easy one if it's true.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Agamemnon+Oct 17 2004, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Oct 17 2004, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Quote:
Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Oct 17 2004, 02:24 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAddiction
Quote:
@Oct 17 2004, 01:44 AM
I think some people are confused with John Kerry and the former senator Bob Kerrey who committed atrocities in Vietnam.

John Kerry admitted to comitting attrocities in Vietnam....in front of the Senate in 1971.

Just a point...not getting into the argument.
Wow. Thats the kind of stuff that would put me against Kerry.

Can you link to a source where Kerry admits he (personally) committed atrocities?

It's one thing to have 'been there' when they happened, and another completely to have 'pulled the trigger'.

If this is true, why haven't the Republicans been all over this? Seems like this would be a KO knockout... and an easy one if it's true. [/b][/quote]
Just find the transcript to his testimony.

I've seen it on TV a dozen times.

He also said it on the Dick Cavett show.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan+Oct 17 2004, 02:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Displaced Flames fan @ Oct 17 2004, 02:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAddiction@Oct 17 2004, 01:44 AM
I think some people are confused with John Kerry and the former senator Bob Kerrey who committed atrocities in Vietnam.
John Kerry admitted to comitting attrocities in Vietnam....in front of the Senate in 1971.

Just a point...not getting into the argument. [/b][/quote]
Please clarify.
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