If you were allowed to carry a concealed gun, would you?

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm against people carrying concealed handguns because the majority of humanity is stupid enough, or lacks the self control. Its like the episode of the Simpson's where Homer was opening beer bottles and shuting off lights with his pistol. There's also the other small percentage that will lose his temper with his boss and ventilate him because he has access to a gun.

There is a mistaken thought process in every person's head that if he has a tool he should use the tool.

Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people moving very fast, but there's also a boob that has to pull the trigger.

[Weiser Wonder]

Nope. Never fired a gun, never came across a situation where it would be useful to fire a gun.

[Agamemnon]

How many people here have been held up at gunpoint or seriously physically assaulted to the point where they feel if they'd had a gun the situation would have turned out better?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by worth

Essentially, the argument is, a foreign government will trust us to carry, however our own will not.

Is that an argument or just a statement?

Who cares what the government of, say, Texas, does and does not allow Canadians to do? It's certainly not relevant to our lives here.

I've never been in a situation where I needed to shoot somebody and I don't think I ever will be. Neither will most Canadians, so we don't really have anything to protect ourselves from.

[tussery]

Carrying a handgun can cause more problems than it solves. I had a good friend who was out at a beach party one night when a fight broke out, he had the good idea to pull out his pistol and shoot it to try and stop the fight. After he fired the shot three or four guys jumped him and started beating him up, and someone tried to cut his throat. Luckily he is fine today. Being a gun owner I still don't think I would carry a concealed weapon as I see no reason too, just less of a reason for someone else to want kill me.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Is that an argument or just a statement?

Who cares what the government of, say, Texas, does and does not allow Canadians to do? It's certainly not relevant to our lives here.

My thoughts as well, Rouge. I was tempted to reply to it, but then I just ignored it...because, well, I'm really not sure of its connection at all to the debate. Maybe worth can explain it clearer? But I just do not follow why it should even matter...

[worth]

It doens't. I'm going off on tangents.

Anyway, those who carry are taught to diffuse a situation before it even gets to a situation where you need it. A simple warning to someone coming at you can make them stop. If a criminal thinks you may be armed, you're a lot less likley to be a target.

The topic of domestic violence and guns doesn't fly. Canada has the third highest number of guns per capita in the world next to the US and Norway.

I had a good friend who was out at a beach party one night when a fight broke out, he had the good idea to pull out his pistol and shoot it to try and stop the fight. After he fired the shot three or four guys jumped him and started beating him up, and someone tried to cut his throat. Luckily he is fine today.

This is not a responsible action by a responsible gun owner. Weapons should only be drawn when you are in danger and your intent is to kill someone in self defense.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by worth

Canada has the third highest number of guns per capita in the world next to the US and Norway.

And Canada and Norway also have stricter gun laws than the US and less crime.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

How many people here have been held up at gunpoint or seriously physically assaulted to the point where they feel if they'd had a gun the situation would have turned out better?

I was robbed at gunpoint several years ago. The gun was put right up to the side of my head. (Yes, happened in Forest Lawn.)

Because there was a string of robberies, the police got all of us together to work on a composite. Between the 6 or 7 of us, we all agreed that we believed that the gun looked fake; but with our lives on the line we thought it was better to hand over the money than to risk getting shot.

Now, if I had a gun available to me; I wouldn't have been able to use it without the risk of starting a fire fight. So if it was within reach I would have left it. However, for it to be within my reach, he would have been able to grab it when he ripped the phone cords out of the walls. So then he would have had a real gun for sure.

[worth]

I was talking about gun violence in homes. If all Americans Canadians and Norwegians have access to a large number of guns in homes, gun control isn't really relevant. Gun control doesn't prevent someone from firing a gun they have already acquired.

If you want to talk about gun control and it's relationship to crome, look at England and Ireland. Extremly high gun control, yet they crime rates are much higher than the United States.

More UK robberies than US:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ies-per-capita

Assaults similar between US and UK
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...lts-per-capita

Canada and UK more bugalaries than US:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ies-per-capita

Car theft greater in Canada and UK (Donesn't really have to do with guns per say):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...fts-per-capita

US does have more murders than Canada and UK:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita

Murders with Firearm:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...rms-per-capita

Crime per capita:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...mes-per-capita

No hard evidence that stricter gun laws means less crime.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I was robbed at gunpoint several years ago. The gun was put right up to the side of my head. (Yes, happened in Forest Lawn.)

Because there was a string of robberies, the police got all of us together to work on a composite. Between the 6 or 7 of us, we all agreed that we believed that the gun looked fake; but with our lives on the line we thought it was better to hand over the money than to risk getting shot.

Now, if I had a gun available to me; I wouldn't have been able to use it without the risk of starting a fire fight. So if it was within reach I would have left it. However, for it to be within my reach, he would have been able to grab it when he ripped the phone cords out of the walls. So then he would have had a real gun for sure.

That totally sucks. At the same time, as you say, if you'd had a concealed weapon on you and tried to use it, the situation probably could have deteriorated to the point where you may not be here today. Guy robs you with a gun, you give him your money. Guy robs you with a gun and you pull out your gun, the situation seems a lot more complicated at that point.

[worth]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

That totally sucks. At the same time, as you say, if you'd had a concealed weapon on you and tried to use it, the situation probably could have deteriorated to the point where you may not be here today. Guy robs you with a gun, you give him your money. Guy robs you with a gun and you pull out your gun, the situation seems a lot more complicated at that point.

As I said previous, those with a CCW are taught to recgonize the situation before you have the gun in your face. If you see an individual approach you you can tell them to stop. If they do not, you can tell them that you are armed. If then they still do not stop and you reach for your concealed weapon, many will think twice.

I don't think anyone who conceals if they were jumped and had a gun in their face would pull it out because you obviously don't have the time to. But that should be up to the carrier to decide.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by worth

The topic of domestic violence and guns doesn't fly. Canada has the third highest number of guns per capita in the world next to the US and Norway.

Come again why it doesn't fly?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by worth

As I said previous, those with a CCW are taught to recgonize the situation before you have the gun in your face. If you see an individual approach you you can tell them to stop. If they do not, you can tell them that you are armed. If then they still do not stop and you reach for your concealed weapon, many will think twice.

Well, in my case I was in the back of the pizza shop. I heard the front door open and quickly came to the front. As I was jogging up there was about 20 feet from the time I saw him to the time I was up to the front; with a counter between us. I said "hi" as I was coming up and he smiled back, and looked up at the menu board. When I got the the front he said "let's see........ what do I want........." he continued looking at the menu board. He then looked at me at the same time said "oh, yeah" (pulld out the gun) "How 'bout everything in the til?"

So unless I was prepared to take the previous 1000 customers' orders at gunpoint, there wouldn't have been much I could have done; trained or not.

[Jason14h]

What if it was mandatory for every citizen to take gun corses, gun safety, and were forced to carry a gun at all times. Would this increase or decrease the number of gun deaths?

[Looger]

i think every country is in a unique situation, there's lots of firepower in swiss homes but they're kept by trained reservists.

in the US for example, the cat's out of the bag - the ridiculous number of firearms, the streamlined supply of guns and ammo, the sheer crazy number of gun stores down there guarantee easy access to firearms for criminals. so with every two-bit hood armed to the teeth, if you're in a danger area you're armed. no two ways aboot it.

how many 7-11's get knocked off with a .303 rifle? canada's gun control for hunting weapons only makes sense when you realize that there's three days of food on grocery shelves, otherwise it's complete and total ludicrous hogwash.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

A young cowboy named Billy Joe
Grew restless on the farm
A boy filled with wanderlust
Who really meant no harm
He changed his clothes and shined his boots
And combed his dark hair down
And his mother cried as he walked out;

Refrain:
"Don't take your guns to town, son
Leave your guns at home, Bill
Don't take your guns to town."

He sang a song as on he rode,
His guns hung at his hips
He rode into a cattle town,
A smile upon his lips
He stopped and walked into a bar and laid his money down
But his mother's words echoed again;

Refrain:
"Don't take your guns to town, son
Leave your guns at home, Bill
Don't take your guns to town."

He drank his first strong liquor then to calm his shaking hand
And tried to tell himself at last he had become a man
A dusty cowpoke at his side began to laugh him down
And he heard again his mother's words;

Refrain:
"Don't take your guns to town, son
Leave your guns at home, Bill
Don't take your guns to town."

Bill was raged and Billy Joe reached for his gun to draw
But the stranger drew his gun and fired before he even saw
As Billy Joe fell to the floor the crowd all gathered 'round
And wondered at his final words;

Refrain:
"Don't take your guns to town, son
Leave your guns at home, Bill
Don't take your guns to town."

[worth]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Come again why it doesn't fly?

Because domestic violence with weapons isn't a real problem as it stands now with the millions of guns in Canada and Norway. I don't see the introduction of additional guns into homes affecting domestic abuse rates. I believe Canada has nearly 1 gun for every person.

Also, FYI anyone with a good record and 1 day of classes can purchase a handgun in Canada.

You can buy a glock 17 with 10 round mags. You could have 100 different pistols if you want in your home right at this very moment.

[worth]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Well, in my case I was in the back of the pizza shop. I heard the front door open and quickly came to the front. As I was jogging up there was about 20 feet from the time I saw him to the time I was up to the front; with a counter between us. I said "hi" as I was coming up and he smiled back, and looked up at the menu board. When I got the the front he said "let's see........ what do I want........." he continued looking at the menu board. He then looked at me at the same time said "oh, yeah" (pulld out the gun) "How 'bout everything in the til?"

So unless I was prepared to take the previous 1000 customers' orders at gunpoint, there wouldn't have been much I could have done; trained or not.

Exactly. There are some situations that are unavoidable, whether you have a gun or not.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by worth

Because domestic violence with weapons isn't a real problem as it stands now with the millions of guns in Canada and Norway. I don't see the introduction of additional guns into homes affecting domestic abuse rates. I believe Canada has nearly 1 gun for every person.

Also, FYI anyone with a good record and 1 day of classes can purchase a handgun in Canada.

You can buy a glock 17 with 10 round mags. You could have 100 different pistols if you want in your home right at this very moment.

Weeelll....this says otherwise: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/.../19-1/d_e.html


Access to Guns in the Home
Many research projects examining the accessibility thesis have compared homes where firearms are present with those where they are not.1314 The risks increased, particularly for adolescents, where the guns were kept loaded and unlocked.15 Kellerman and his colleagues, for example, concluded that the homicide of a family member was 2.7 times more likely to occur in a home with a firearm than in homes without guns. After accounting for several independent risk factors, another study concluded that keeping one or more firearms was associated with a 4.8-fold increased risk of suicide in the home.