What the US religous right says about Canada.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by CrzyCanuck@Oct 14 2004, 01:49 PM
I take it you won't mind a gay couple adopting then? "Billy, why are your two dad holding hands?" ..."Son, I don't think you should play at Billy's anymore"

Billy then asks: "Dan, why is your Dad divorced, is it cause he was caught with his secretary on her desk and what is BJ afterall? Why isn't he in jail for breaking up a family..." "Don't go over there again billy."

[duncan]

Originally posted by octothorp@Oct 14 2004, 04:12 AM
which is responsible for more divorces: homosexuality, or adultery? If you were to follow the logic that we were banning those acts which threaten the institution of marriage, you'd think that adultery would be the first thing to be written up as a major crime. I'd wager that career transfers are probably responsible for ruining more marriages than homosexuality.

where I work, the divorce rate is about 75%. Of the 12 staff on my unit, 6 or on their second marriage, 1 on his third marriage, 1 is separated, and 2 have never been married, so the divorce rate is 80%. The biggest problem for us is shift work and job stress, so hopefully they make thosse illegal too.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

*ahem*

Andrea Vinley Jewell, WHO THE ###### ARE YOU?!?!??!?!?!

I don't tell you how to run your life and your country, do you mind letting me live mine in another nation?

[arsenal]

Originally posted by CrzyCanuck@Oct 14 2004, 06:49 AM
I take it you won't mind a gay couple adopting then? "Billy, why are your two dad holding hands?" ..."Son, I don't think you should play at Billy's anymore"

No actually I wouldn't. As long as they bring up their adopted son/daughter with an open mind, and allow them to make their own decisions. Sure, there will be gay couples that don't do that, but there are heterosexual couples that do that as well.
As far as your analogy, there is no way I would tell my kid to stop being friends with the child of a gay couple. On the other hand, there will be people that disagree with that. Both on the heterosexual and gay side.

[octothorp]

Originally posted by arsenal+Oct 14 2004, 11:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Oct 14 2004, 11:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CrzyCanuck@Oct 14 2004, 06:49 AM
I take it you won't mind a gay couple adopting then? "Billy, why are your two dad holding hands?" ..."Son, I don't think you should play at Billy's anymore"

No actually I wouldn't. As long as they bring up their adopted son/daughter with an open mind, and allow them to make their own decisions. Sure, there will be gay couples that don't do that, but there are heterosexual couples that do that as well.
As far as your analogy, there is no way I would tell my kid to stop being friends with the child of a gay couple. On the other hand, there will be people that disagree with that. Both on the heterosexual and gay side. [/b][/quote]
Somehow I expect that gay couples would probably be more understanding than anyone else about letting the child grow up naturally--many of them have had difficult childhoods knowing that their own life will differ greatly from their parents' expectations for them. The last thing they'd want to do is make the same mistake with their children. The idea that the sexuality of children is determined by the sexuality of the parents (especially when those parents and the child are not even genetically linked) is ridiculous.

[Bill Bumface]

Freedom of Religion: The Supreme Court is currently reviewing a case concerning Trinity Western International University, a private, Christian institution. The British Columbia College of Teachers has refused to certify the fifth year of the university’s education program because its mandatory Community Standards Statement allegedly "discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation." The code prohibits students from engaging in premarital sex, homosexual behavior, adultery and the viewing of pornography. Without the certification, graduates likely cannot find teaching jobs.

Wait til they have to transfer to U of C and see the fishbowl of free condoms in Mac Hall...

[arsenal]

One would think so. I was watching TV one night, and flipped onto a station that was talking about bi-sexuality. It was a guy talking about how he came out of the closet, thinking he was gay. Had a bunch of gay friends etc. But he still have feelings for woman. So he then had to come out again to his gay friends. He got exactly the same reaction from his gay friends, as he did from his straight friends.

Just becuase you are gay, doesn't mean you are more understanding, when it comes to these issues.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Flame On+Oct 14 2004, 02:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Oct 14 2004, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CrzyCanuck@Oct 14 2004, 01:49 PM
I take it you won't mind a gay couple adopting then?# "Billy, why are your two dad holding hands?"# ..."Son, I don't think you should play at Billy's anymore"

Billy then asks: "Dan, why is your Dad divorced, is it cause he was caught with his secretary on her desk and what is BJ afterall? Why isn't he in jail for breaking up a family..." "Don't go over there again billy." [/b][/quote]
My best friend when I was young had Lesbian parents. I spent a load of time there, and never thought anything of it. He (and (ahem) I) turned out fine, neither of us are gay, and we're both fitting in to heterosexual life just fine, despite all our 'exposure' to his gay parents at a young age.

Though I DO think it's ok to be gay, so maybe they subverted me somehow.

I'd never have a problem w/ my kid hanging out a friend's house w/ Gay parents. Doesn't make a lick of difference.

[troutman]

http://www.galha.org/briefing/iheu1994.html

The International Humanist and Ethical Union affirms:

That one of its main aims is to secure justice and fairness in society and to eliminate discrimination and intolerance.

That this extends to all people regardless of their beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, or race.

That homosexuality and bisexuality are the natural orientation of a human minority which has existed throughout history.

That lesbians, gays and bisexuals make as valuable a contribution to society as their heterosexual counterparts. They are a cross-section of humanity, differing in no perceptible ways from their fellow human beings, other than in their sexual orientation.

That the fear and hatred of lesbians and gays, known as homophobia, is totally irrational. It is a social evil akin to racism and (as the Nazi experience has shown) can have the same evil consequences. It harms both the victimised individuals and the society which tolerates it.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by troutman@Oct 14 2004, 07:22 PM
That homosexuality and bisexuality are the natural orientation of a human minority which has existed throughout history.

Well, there's the rub for the religious-right. Bush was asked last night (I believe) on whether he thought homosexuality was a choice or not. He claimed he didn't know.

I'm surprised the answer isn't obvious. President Bush, why don't you go ahead and 'choose' to be gay, proving that it's a 'choice' and not an inherent state of being.

I for one always laugh at the 'choice' argument. It's been put to me like this; 'If you date a man you're choosing to date a man. If you date a woman, same thing. It's a choice, no one is forcing you to date one or the other, you're choosing'.

I've always thought this was invalid, as I could never see myself 'choosing' to be gay. Ever. It's not a 'choice' for me, the idea of making love to a man isn't appealing. I don't feel like I have a choice. I'm straight, that's the way I was born.

[troutman]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/10/14...tudy/index.html

One in 100 people are asexual:

About one percent of adults have absolutely no interest in sex, according to a new study,

It offered respondent a list of options. One read: "I have never felt sexually attracted to anyone at all." One percent said they agreed with the statement.

That response level is close to the percentage of gay people in the population, which is around three percent, the New Scientist report says.

How would you categorize yourself?

Heterosexual 80% 49753 votes

Homosexual 9% 5350 votes

Bisexual 6% 3940 votes

Asexual 5% 2969 votes
Total: 62012 votes

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Oct 14 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Oct 14 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-troutman@Oct 14 2004, 07:22 PM
That homosexuality and bisexuality are the natural orientation of a human minority which has existed throughout history.

Well, there's the rub for the religious-right. Bush was asked last night (I believe) on whether he thought homosexuality was a choice or not. He claimed he didn't know.

I'm surprised the answer isn't obvious. President Bush, why don't you go ahead and 'choose' to be gay, proving that it's a 'choice' and not an inherent state of being.

I for one always laugh at the 'choice' argument. It's been put to me like this; 'If you date a man you're choosing to date a man. If you date a woman, same thing. It's a choice, no one is forcing you to date one or the other, you're choosing'.

I've always thought this was invalid, as I could never see myself 'choosing' to be gay. Ever. It's not a 'choice' for me, the idea of making love to a man isn't appealing. I don't feel like I have a choice. I'm straight, that's the way I was born. [/b][/quote]
Couldn't agree more...........well said.

My mom still says that as well, and I correct her every time. She says "Well,........if they choose to live their life that way.........."

I always have to correct her. They don't choose.......it's just the way they are.

It's quite a different story when the most poweful man in the world (Bush) says he's not sure if it's a choice or not.

That's scary.

Still not sure why people get worked up about the issue anyways. If two gay people love each other and want to be together forever, go for it. I hope they have a very happy life together.

[Thunderball]

to be fair, you can't paint all gay people with the same brush.

Some may be hardwired from birth to be homosexual, but I am sure there are more than a few who choose that lifestyle... these ones aren't likely the ones to get married though.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Oct 15 2004, 03:23 AM
to be fair, you can't paint all gay people with the same brush.

Some may be hardwired from birth to be homosexual, but I am sure there are more than a few who choose that lifestyle... these ones aren't likely the ones to get married though.

But to "choose" that lifestyle, wouldn't the person HAVE to be gay in the first place? I mean seriously, what heterosexual would "choose" to be gay?

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Oct 14 2004, 09:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Oct 14 2004, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunderball@Oct 15 2004, 03:23 AM
to be fair, you can't paint all gay people with the same brush.

Some may be hardwired from birth to be homosexual, but I am sure there are more than a few who choose that lifestyle... these ones aren't likely the ones to get married though.

But to "choose" that lifestyle, wouldn't the person HAVE to be gay in the first place? I mean seriously, what heterosexual would "choose" to be gay? [/b][/quote]
Maybe someone who has a fetish of getting it a certain way... I'm by no means an expert on these things, but you can still like women by design, but desire sexual activity with a man... right?

[FlamesAddiction]

I think that actually makes someone gay, but I'm no expert either.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Oct 14 2004, 09:23 PM
to be fair, you can't paint all gay people with the same brush.

Some may be hardwired from birth to be homosexual, but I am sure there are more than a few who choose that lifestyle... these ones aren't likely the ones to get married though.

Yeah but who chooses this kind of thing? Assuming you are straight, did you choose to be?

Straight people don't choose to be straight. Straight people can't be cajoled, taught, influenced or coerced into being gay. I know this because I am a regular person and I know nobody could convince me to hug and kiss and fall in love with another man. It can't happen to me and I'm a regular person. Why would it happen to other people.

Is anyone else willing to say "but if the situation was right and I had a really smooth-talking gay guy living next door and suddenly..."? I didn't think so.

These "Focus on the Family" types are, for lack of a better word, stupid people. Either that or the men that run it are scared of their own dark secrets and fears.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Oct 15 2004, 03:23 AM
to be fair, you can't paint all gay people with the same brush.

Some may be hardwired from birth to be homosexual, but I am sure there are more than a few who choose that lifestyle... these ones aren't likely the ones to get married though.

I'd surmise that a small percentage are homosexual for external factors. Basically, traumatic rapings, parental abuse, spousal abuse, etc. can all lead to pretty negative feelings to an entire sex, 'forcing' some people to be homosexual (or asexual, as pointed out in another thread).

Still, doesn't validate the 'choice' issue, because it's the result of a very specific experience and a reaction to it.

[troutman]

http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html

What Causes a Person To Have a Particular Sexual Orientation?

There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people.

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.


Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation?

No. Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/1979boswell.html

It is possible to change ecclesiastical attitudes toward gay people and their sexuality because the objections to homosexuality are not biblical, they are not consistent, they are not part of Jesus' teaching; and they are not even fundamentally Christian. It is possible because Christianity was indifferent, if not accepting, of gay people and their feelings for a longer period of time than it had been hostile to them. It is possible because the founders of the religion specifically considered love to transcend accidents of biology and to be the end, not the means. It may not be possible to eradicate intolerance from secular society, for intolerance is, to some extent ineradicable; but I believe the church's attitude can and must be changed. It has been different in the past and it can be again. Plato observed of secular society nearly 2,400 years ago that "wherever it has been established that it is shameful to be involved in homosexual relationships, this is due to evil on the part of the legislatures, to despotism on the part of the rulers and to cowardism on the part of the governed."

[Mike F]

A CNN article that's right on point for this discussion.

Genetic factors, along with cultural and early experiences, influence male homosexuality, Italian scientists said on Wednesday

Bottom line: Involuntary and almost certainly irreversible