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Old 12-01-2006, 04:32 PM   #21
Cheese
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Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan View Post
True, but an atheist or a deist wouldn't necessarily see swearing on the bible as a conflict, especially 200 years ago. Certainly a muslim would. That's why it hasn't been an issue until now.

As I mentioned, I truly believe they should be made to swear on the constitution itself.
LOL...well 200 years ago Atheists and others were still being murdered for not believing in Christ. I would think most just held their noses.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:27 AM   #22
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Prager's rebuttle..

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/D...and_a_solution
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:27 AM   #23
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Thanks for posting that. He's not a bad writer, but his argument is still kind of a muddle of revisionist right-wing history. For one thing, he's depending on his readers to not be paying attention when in one breath he refers to the Constitution and then references the Declaration of Independence in the next breath:
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America derives its laws from its Constitution. It derives its values from the Bible. We don't get inalienable rights from the Constitution; we get them from God. Which is exactly what the signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote: We are endowed with inalienable rights by our Creator, not by government and not by any man-made document. And that Creator and those inalienable rights emanate from the Bible.
There's a really important difference between the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. It is this: the first is a legally binding document that shapes American legislative, judicial and executive practice. The second is a non-binding document that asserts independence from another national power.

In point of fact, the Declaration makes no reference whatsoever to the Bible, Christian or otherwise. What it says is: "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Look: if the framers had wanted to make reference to God, they would have said "God." "Creator" is the language of Deism, which is a religious philosophy that posits that the earth has a Creator, but that he/she/it is unimaginable to us and unable or unwilling to influence events on Earth. What this means is that moral truth comes, not from a Creator, but from people themselves, doing good works during their lifetime. Some of you may recognize these as the basic philosophical precepts of, wait for it..... HUMANISM.

But it's quite clear why when it comes to the supposed "religious" foundations of the Constitution, people like Preger always want to change the subject to the Declaration. It's simple. The Constitution makes no reference to God at all. Its preamble references "We the People" as givers of national authority in and of themselves without God's help. In fact, the only reference to religion in the Constitution is that freedom of religion not be impeded--which is why making someone swear on a book they believe in really is unconstitutional. Preger doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:46 AM   #24
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I never even hinted that there should be a religious test

Nah, you don't have to do a test, you just have to swear on the Bible.
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