Muslim scholar removed from airline.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I am stuck somewhere in the middle. They should have the right to pray but they should also be aware of the times and according to some witnesses they said:

Before passengers boarded, one became alarmed by an overheard discussion. "They seemed angry," he wrote in a police statement. "Mentioned `U.S.' and `killing Saddam.' Two men then swore slightly under their breath/mumbled. They spoke Arabic again. The gate called boarding for the flight. The men then chanted `Allah, Allah, Allah.'"

I could see how that might scare some people.

Yes, they have a right to practise their religion. BUT, they should also be cognizant of the fact that, in traditional garb, in the USA, in an airplane, there is a high likelihood that the passengers as well as the flight crew will be alarmed and come to the wrong conclusion.

Now, if according to them and their religion, they have to pray at certain times, then I think it is up to them to find flying arrangements whereby they do not have to say their prayers during the flight.

I think it just comes down to mutual respect, not respect of religion, but just plain old mutual respect. There are some who will be upset and find it a disturbance if someone starts singing the Lord's Prayer during a flight as well. It just comes down to realizing that in certain situations, you respect the privacy and space of others, especially within close quarters such as an airplane.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by redforever

Yes, they have a right to practise their religion. BUT, they should also be cognizant of the fact that, in traditional garb, in the USA, in an airplane, there is a high likelihood that the passengers as well as the flight crew will be alarmed and come to the wrong conclusion.

Now, if according to them and their religion, they have to pray at certain times, then I think it is up to them to find flying arrangements whereby they do not have to say their prayers during the flight.

I think it just comes down to mutual respect, not respect of religion, but just plain old mutual respect. There are some who will be upset and find it a disturbance if someone starts singing the Lord's Prayer during a flight as well. It just comes down to realizing that in certain situations, you respect the privacy and space of others, especially within close quarters such as an airplane.

I agree.

[Igottago]

I think in this instance, these guys are just plain stupid. Is it sad that they might have to hide their "muslimness" a bit, sure. But they know what's going on in the world, they can't just expect no one to take issue with it.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I think in this instance, these guys are just plain stupid. Is it sad that they might have to hide their "muslimness" a bit, sure. But they know what's going on in the world, they can't just expect no one to take issue with it.

Why do they have to hide the fact that they are Muslim? We dont all dress the same way, look the same way. Sure, some are now very alarmed with anyone who is a Muslim, but in most cases, not justifiably so.

All I think that has to be done is show mutual respect within the airplane. Get on like everyone else, take your juice and cookies or whatever, read, go to the bathroom, whatever, just respect the space and privacy of those within the airplane.

I mean, surely we can all just be passengers on an airplane without having to openly practise our religion, and I dont care what religion it is. A practising Catholic might offend a Muslim, a practising Buddhist might offend a Protestant, we dont have to just talk about one religion here. Religion is a very VERY sensitive subject and in most cases, it is best left to those circumstances and surroundings, where if some are offended or do not wish to witness what is going on, they have the freedom to go elsewhere. That is not the case within the confines of an airplane. You are then dictating that others within that airplane be witness to your religion, they have no say in the matter. You have then taken a freedom away from them.

Now, on the other hand, if you were flying say within Iran or Iraq, which I have never done, and I do not know what inflight customs are like there, but if that is the norm in flights within those countries, then you as an outsider should not be offended by the practise either. And if you are, you too have the right to make alternative travel arrangements.

Rights and respect go both ways and common sense would go a long way to solve most of these issues.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Jayems

I'm aware Allah is god, but i've seen a tonne of videos from Iraq and they always say just before they blow something up "Allah al akbar" (or god is greatest)

this made me laugh for some reason

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by redforever

Why do they have to hide the fact that they are Muslim? We dont all dress the same way, look the same way. Sure, some are now very alarmed with anyone who is a Muslim, but in most cases, not justifiably so.

All I think that has to be done is show mutual respect within the airplane. Get on like everyone else, take your juice and cookies or whatever, read, go to the bathroom, whatever, just respect the space and privacy of those within the airplane.

I mean, surely we can all just be passengers on an airplane without having to openly practise our religion, and I dont care what religion it is. A practising Catholic might offend a Muslim, a practising Buddhist might offend a Protestant, we dont have to just talk about one religion here. Religion is a very VERY sensitive subject and in most cases, it is best left to those circumstances and surroundings, where if some are offended or do not wish to witness what is going on, they have the freedom to go elsewhere. That is not the case within the confines of an airplane. You are then dictating that others within that airplane be witness to your religion, they have no say in the matter. You have then taken a freedom away from them.

Now, on the other hand, if you were flying say within Iran or Iraq, which I have never done, and I do not know what inflight customs are like there, but if that is the norm in flights within those countries, then you as an outsider should not be offended by the practise either. And if you are, you too have the right to make alternative travel arrangements.

Rights and respect go both ways and common sense would go a long way to solve most of these issues.

I agree, I wasn't implying they should dress differently, but the prayers, allah chants, and political talk should've probably been toned down.

[underdawg]

and actually take time to learn about muslims and their culture....

Watch BBC a more world wide approach to news and you will see an actual unbiased view on muslims.

I cannot believe the bs i am reading.. cause you all are scared of people praying... Don't let these media hypes, bush and blair fool you... its not a muslim vs christian war.. its a east vs west. it's a battle for the profits.. not the prophets...

I am scared of all you redneck, shaved headed freaks walking in buildings, .... in the middle east on emirates airlines they say a short prayer/blessing before everyplane takes off... its a beautiful thing to have a religion.. not just a holiday that you go crazy on for shopping purposes and greed.

I am just saying.. no the facts... take the time to learn about muslims and their beliefs.. and see how the 3 world religions are the basis of not only other religions, but also mankind. Please puckers... don't believe what you see/hear on cnn....or the us media.

Always remember... Allah is the definition of the english word God. It is nota seperate entitiy. The foundation of Christianity and Islam is that there is one god. The prophets were never at odds with each other... they were messengers... Jesus, Moses and Mohammed.... all from the same source....

Please learn about religion.. before you make a judgement.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by underdawg

I am scared of all you redneck, shaved headed freaks walking in buildings,

you disgust me.

[underdawg]

funny that is all your small mind caught in that entire message...

i put that in to prove a point.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by underdawg

and actually take time to learn about muslims and their culture....

Watch BBC a more world wide approach to news and you will see an actual unbiased view on muslims.

I cannot believe the bs i am reading.. cause you all are scared of people praying... Don't let these media hypes, bush and blair fool you... its not a muslim vs christian war.. its a east vs west. it's a battle for the profits.. not the prophets...

I am scared of all you redneck, shaved headed freaks walking in buildings, .... in the middle east on emirates airlines they say a short prayer/blessing before everyplane takes off... its a beautiful thing to have a religion.. not just a holiday that you go crazy on for shopping purposes and greed.

I am just saying.. no the facts... take the time to learn about muslims and their beliefs.. and see how the 3 world religions are the basis of not only other religions, but also mankind. Please puckers... don't believe what you see/hear on cnn....or the us media.

Always remember... Allah is the definition of the english word God. It is nota seperate entitiy. The foundation of Christianity and Islam is that there is one god. The prophets were never at odds with each other... they were messengers... Jesus, Moses and Mohammed.... all from the same source....

Please learn about religion.. before you make a judgement.

I can see why people would be concerned, and I read the BBC website for news. Remember that muslims did fly planes into buildings in downtown New York in September 2001.

I dunno... but I think that's why some of these uneducated "rednecks" might be concerned.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by underdawg

I am scared of all you redneck, shaved headed freaks walking in buildings, .... in the middle east on emirates airlines they say a short prayer/blessing before everyplane takes off... its a beautiful thing to have a religion.. not just a holiday that you go crazy on for shopping purposes and greed.

Heh. Now that's religious tolerance for ya.

"My religion beautiful, yours is based on greed, and by the way I'm afraid of you, and you are stupid".

That about sum it up?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Heh. Now that's religious tolerance for ya.

"My religion beautiful, yours is based on greed, and by the way I'm afraid of you, and you are stupid".

That about sum it up?

funny how that's all your small mind caught in that entire message.

[underdawg]

so then from now on... its ok to be scared and prejudice...why aren't the intellectuals speaking up...

do people know the history behind the palestine, afgahnistan, india and pakistan?

it all roots to one cause/source.. and its the brits and americans.... its harsh to see what these leaders have done and keep doing to these socities....

just take the time.. and i don't mean to be offensive..i am just trying to make you think and make a point..

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by underdawg

so then from now on... its ok to be scared and prejudice...why aren't the intellectuals speaking up...

do people know the history behind the palestine, afgahnistan, india and pakistan?

it all roots to one cause/source.. and its the brits and americans.... its harsh to see what these leaders have done and keep doing to these socities....

just take the time.. and i don't mean to be offensive..i am just trying to make you think and make a point..

But the problem is no one here was making judgements about Muslims or their religion. The issue is one of safety, or perceptions of safety. Not intolerance of religion.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by underdawg

so then from now on... its ok to be scared and prejudice...why aren't the intellectuals speaking up...

do people know the history behind the palestine, afgahnistan, india and pakistan?

it all roots to one cause/source.. and its the brits and americans.... its harsh to see what these leaders have done and keep doing to these socities....

just take the time.. and i don't mean to be offensive..i am just trying to make you think and make a point..

ya - you've made your point. you're much better then us and we should go educate ourselves. thanks for stopping by.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by underdawg

so then from now on... its ok to be scared and prejudice...why aren't the intellectuals speaking up...

do people know the history behind the palestine, afgahnistan, india and pakistan?

it all roots to one cause/source.. and its the brits and americans.... its harsh to see what these leaders have done and keep doing to these socities....

just take the time.. and i don't mean to be offensive..i am just trying to make you think and make a point..

I know what your getting at, but at the same time, your bringing up items that probably are worthy of their own thread...

I think it's all about the context of this particular situation. I think your right if this situation had occurred, say, at any other public location other then on an airplane. I think that in the United States it's probably too soon to expect them not to worry considering they just had a similar attack under SEEMINGLY similar circumstances (place, people...).

Not to mention the way you went about it, originally, was actually kind of offensive.

[underdawg]

i know my message came across harsh...
i am a very fair and unbiased person.. but reading the posts after the first one.. got me rather emotional in a sense that .. this is how the "common man" thinks...

and i think that is wrong.. becuase i don't believe that many people have the knowledge or understanding to see it from both sides (myself included)

the redneck comment was just stating a point that its just as stupid to assume that as it is this....

I have started to research .. and i hope to find the answers i am lookin for....

[Winsor_Pilates]

Agree with most here. It's unfortunate that everyone has to be a little scared, but the reality is people are. I'm guessing even some mulim people on the filght could have found it a little worrysome.
They could tone down the prayers a little during a flight and everyone would be happy.

[underdawg]

i always wonder what would have been the result.. had the brits not caught the "shampoo" bombers...

and its scares me... I hope these groups and politicians don't destroy our world.... but it seems inevitable....

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by underdawg

i know my message came across harsh...
i am a very fair and unbiased person.. but reading the posts after the first one.. got me rather emotional in a sense that .. this is how the "common man" thinks...

and i think that is wrong.. becuase i don't believe that many people have the knowledge or understanding to see it from both sides (myself included)
.

But I don't see it as an understanding issue.

Bottom line - its the world we live in. And based on the behaviour of these gentlemen that were boarding the plane, I challenge anyone to say they would not have been nervous.