Harper announces plans to crack down on drug-impaired drivers!!

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Not true. Last time I checked, alcohol still causes violence, even though it's legal.

While that is true, when have you ever heard of two stoners getting into a marijuana-induced fight? More than likely they want to eat a bag of Doritos and watch The Wall.

Most of the violence associated with illegal drugs stems from the fact that they are illegal, and thus gangs get into turf wars over selling them. Legalizing marijuana isn't going to do a thing to solve crime related to the sale of cocaine or other "hard" drugs, but it is a start. Moreover, the mind-altering effects of pot have been shown to be no more harmful than alcohol, and the physical effects aren't worse than cigerette-smoking, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal.

It's not like I have a vested interest in this either; I tried pot a few times when I was in university, didn't see what the big deal was, and haven't done it since. I just see no particular reason why it should be illegal when other drugs with comparable effects are perfectly acceptable. Legalize and regulate it, then tax it at levels similar to alcohol and tabacco.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I'm talking about the trafficing of the drugs. As I said, The DRUG TRADE.

And your example is false since I'm talking about trafficing. Since prohibition of alcohol ended violence surrounding the illegal sale of alchol also ended.

I don't think there's too many Al Capones in the alcohol business these days.

The same thing would happen in the drug trade if the profit was taken out of it by making it legal.

The trafficing violence might cease (it probably wouldn't, because of cross border trafficing), but it would be replaced by other violence. Booze and cigs are legal, but stores that carry such items still get broken into. Not to mention stoners are easy mugging targets.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

While that is true, when have you ever heard of two stoners getting into a marijuana-induced fight? More than likely they want to eat a bag of Doritos and watch The Wall.

Most of the violence associated with illegal drugs stems from the fact that they are illegal, and thus gangs get into turf wars over selling them. Legalizing marijuana isn't going to do a thing to solve crime related to the sale of cocaine or other "hard" drugs, but it is a start. Moreover, the mind-altering effects of pot have been shown to be no more harmful than alcohol, and the physical effects aren't worse than cigerette-smoking, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal.

It's not like I have a vested interest in this either; I tried pot a few times when I was in university, didn't see what the big deal was, and haven't done it since. I just see no particular reason why it should be illegal when other drugs with comparable effects are perfectly acceptable. Legalize and regulate it, then tax it at levels similar to alcohol and tabacco.

I think society has enough vices. I don't know what the value is of adding another one.

Two stoners getting into a fight? I'm more concerned about stoners getting beaten up by sober/drunk people. And how about those that will smoke pot and drink at the same time?

[MarchHare]

I think society has enough vices. I don't know what the value is of adding another one.

Society wouldn't be adding another vice. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but people are already smoking pot right now! I read somewhere (can't find the source atm, sorry) that something like 30% of adult Canadians have used marijuana at least once. When the harm of the drug has been demonstrated to be no worse than other legal drugs, what reason is there to ban it? If the government isn't going to be hypocritical, they should ban alcohol and tabacco too. Note that I don't actually want that to happen (although I would like to see smokers have to pay for their own healthcare if they suffer from a smoking-related disease, but that's a topic for another thread), but I just see no logical reason for marijuana to be an illegal drug while tabacco and alcohol are sold legally and taxed by the government.

Two stoners getting into a fight? I'm more concerned about stoners getting beaten up by sober/drunk people.

How is that any different than two drunk people getting into a fight (which happens all the freaking time)? Or a sober person assaulting a drunk person?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I think society has enough vices. I don't know what the value is of adding another one.

Its hypocritical of society/the law to allow one drug (alcohol/cigarettes) and not another drug whose side effects are pretty much similar/identical. Either outlaw all 3 or legalize all 3, its hypocracy to have some legal and some not.

Two stoners getting into a fight? I'm more concerned about stoners getting beaten up by sober/drunk people.

Thats the risk stoners will have to take (and take all the time, right now... BC grows and sells $6 billion worth of marijuana a year).

And how about those that will smoke pot and drink at the same time?

They're livin' large!

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Shazam

The trafficing violence might cease (it probably wouldn't, because of cross border trafficing), but it would be replaced by other violence. Booze and cigs are legal, but stores that carry such items still get broken into. Not to mention stoners are easy mugging targets.

Stores are able to protect themselves against theft/violence better than the pot dealer in his apartment or on the street. Liquor stores generally get robbed for the cash in the tills, not the booze on the wall.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Thats the risk stoners will have to take (and take all the time, right now... BC grows and sells $6 billion worth of marijuana a year).

And the moment it becomes legal, that $6b will become $500 million, if that. It'll instantly become a commodity product. You won't be able to grow it anywhere - it'll be so tightly regulated, most growers will not be able to compete in an open market. Not to mention cheap imports from other countries.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Stores are able to protect themselves against theft/violence better than the pot dealer in his apartment or on the street. Liquor stores generally get robbed for the cash in the tills, not the booze on the wall.

I can get stolen booze for cheap in about five minutes. Seems as though someone's taking it.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Shazam

And the moment it becomes legal, that $6b will become $500 million, if that. It'll instantly become a commodity product. You won't be able to grow it anywhere - it'll be so tightly regulated, most growers will not be able to compete in an open market. Not to mention cheap imports from other countries.

Right... because the government will soak that money up in taxes, and corporations in profit (which they'll pay tax on). I figure thats better than all $6 billion going into the hands of illegal growers in BC to do god knows what with.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I can get stolen booze for cheap in about five minutes. Seems as though someone's taking it.

Ok... I can get cheap booze from the liquor store down the street in five minutes. In fact, I bet 98% of the people on this message board buy their liquor legally. 100% of the people on this message board (who buy pot) buy it illegally.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I'm more concerned about stoners getting beaten up by sober/drunk people.

That's a concern of yours, eh? For real?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I can get stolen booze for cheap in about five minutes. Seems as though someone's taking it.

From where? I don't mean specifics, but do you actually know of a stolen booze racket? I've never heard of such a thing.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Society wouldn't be adding another vice. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but people are already smoking pot right now! I read somewhere (can't find the source atm, sorry) that something like 30% of adult Canadians have used marijuana at least once.

So what would that number be if it was legal?

When the harm of the drug has been demonstrated to be no worse than other legal drugs, what reason is there to ban it? If the government isn't going to be hypocritical, they should ban alcohol and tabacco too.

Society is rarely consistent in its application of logic and fairness, even one as progressive as Canada's.

Note that I don't actually want that to happen (although I would like to see smokers have to pay for their own healthcare if they suffer from a smoking-related disease, but that's a topic for another thread), but I just see no logical reason for marijuana to be an illegal drug while tabacco and alcohol are sold legally and taxed by the government.

We have enough people running around drunk and killing themselves with cigs. Do we need yet more people running around stoned?

Smokers will never have to pay for their own health care. Smokers are also voters, and any gov't stupid enough to put that in their platform would be toppled fairly quickly.

How is that any different than two drunk people getting into a fight (which happens all the freaking time)? Or a sober person assaulting a drunk person?

Geez, do we need more people getting into fights then? Who's paying for that? The ganja smokers?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Right... because the government will soak that money up in taxes, and corporations in profit (which they'll pay tax on). I figure thats better than all $6 billion going into the hands of illegal growers in BC to do god knows what with.

The price of ganja is expensive precisely because it is illegal. What, do you honestly think growing ganja is expensive? It's very easy to grow.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

From where? I don't mean specifics, but do you actually know of a stolen booze racket? I've never heard of such a thing.

Yes. I am one degree of separation away from every illegal racket you can think of. You want stolen cotton balls? Hell, I'll get you a stolen fridge if you want.

Ok... I can get cheap booze from the liquor store down the street in five minutes.

You can get a flat of beer for $5 at the liquor store?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Shazam

The price of ganja is expensive precisely because it is illegal. What, do you honestly think growing ganja is expensive? It's very easy to grow.

You seem to be saying two different things. Weed is expensive because it is illegal, but growing it is very easy (and cheap)?

Weed is not expensive... and if you think it is, you're going to the wrong guy. It is incredibly abundant, they sell it on the street in most Canadian cities. There are no taxes on it, supply and demand dictate the price, and there is a LOT of weed being grown right now in Western Canada.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Shazam

You can get a flat of beer for $5 at the liquor store?

Fair enough, you just prove a point against yourself; despite alcohol being legal and widely available there are still illegal rackets surrounding it. I believe your original point was the legalizing weed would cause violence... how does that work again?

Also, the liquor you're talking about is stolen. The weed people buy usually isn't stolen (probably the same percentage as stolen liquor available; not much), its illegally grown and distributed.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Fair enough, you just prove a point against yourself; despite alcohol being legal and widely available there are still illegal rackets surrounding it. I believe your original point was the legalizing weed would cause violence... how does that work again?

Please tell me how I have inconsistent.

Alcohol is legal, and causes violence.
If ganja was legal, it would still cause violence.

MarchHare and Winsor_Pilates are the ones who think ganja-related violence will lessen if it was legal.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Also, the liquor you're talking about is stolen. The weed people buy usually isn't stolen (probably the same percentage as stolen liquor available; not much), its illegally grown and distributed.

If weed were legal, it would get stolen, and sold illegally.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Please tell me how I have inconsistent.

Alcohol is legal, and causes violence.
If ganja was legal, it would still cause violence.

How does alcohol 'cause violence'? Are you talking about people being violent under the influence of alcohol? Or criminal activity surrounding alcohol (which I didn't realize existed... and doubt the extensiveness of). If weed 'will cause violence' whether its legal or illegal, then why not legalize it?

MarchHare and Winsor_Pilates are the ones who think ganja-related violence will lessen if it was legal.

I'm not sure what violence you're talking about. If you're talking about organized crime growing/distributing pot and fighting over these things, then I agree with them whole-heartedly.