MJK and Beerfund agree to disagree - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Beerfund · 10-31-2006, 09:11 PM

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I want to give you a very easy example of how the "reality" is flawed here so early in the season.

Let us pretend that the Penguins and the Bruins are playing a best of 3 for the Stanley Cup. I know it isn't realistically possible but hear me out.

The Penguins end up sweeping the Bruins for the cup, does that make the Bruins crap? No, they just got beat by the better team and unfortunatly lost 3 in a row.

You say the Penguins are bad becuase they beat up on the weak Bruins. Yet the Bruins are bad because they lost to the Penguins 3 times. How is it possible for one of these teams to be good in your reality rankings? I don't think it is.

Well, if they were both in the cup then both teams would be ranked at the top, but one (in your case the Penguins) would be ranked higher.

In reality, as the Bruins start to prove themselves, and begin to win, the teams that have beat the Bruins will begin to climb as well. The ranking are based on the other games as well, not just the three games between the bruins and the Pens

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Originally Posted by Goffie

What happens in the reality rankings if...I dunno for example lets say the #7 ranked team loses by 5 goals to the #26 ranked team? Does that affect the rankings?

LOL, If you beat a team that is ranked higher two things happen. First you will climb, as you should for beating a team that is ranked towards the top of the league. The team that is higher will fall a bit, as they will be penalized for losing to a lower ranked team. That's reality. If you continue to beat teams that are ranked higher than you, you will continue to climb, and those teams will fall if they continue to lose to teams ranked loser.

Beerfund · 10-31-2006, 09:37 PM

So, lets take a look at the Tool Rankings

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With a game in hand and only one loss to one of the CPHL’s best team’s, the Panthers maintain the #1 spot in the TOOL Power Rankings for this week

. So the Panther lose and remian in first. The Thrashers however, have only lost 1 game and they climb 3 spots into 4th. Two questions:1. Why is a team rated that low when they've done nothing but beat other clubs. 2. Why does a game in hand count more than a win, is there a way that the game in hand could produce more than a win?

MJK · 11-01-2006, 07:19 AM

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Originally Posted by Beerfund

So, lets take a look at the Tool Rankings . So the Panther lose and remian in first. The Thrashers however, have only lost 1 game and they climb 3 spots into 4th. Two questions:1. Why is a team rated that low when they've done nothing but beat other clubs. 2. Why does a game in hand count more than a win, is there a way that the game in hand could produce more than a win?

At the time, BOTH the Panthers and Thrasers had 1 loss, however, the Panthers had a game in hand giving them the top spot. Now that the Panthers have lost, giving them 2 on the season can you take a guess at what will happen!! They will drop. Seems simple enough to me.

Beerfund, you did NOT have a ranking in place for week 1 so because you came up with your rankings late, you have an advantage knowing who was winning and who was not. I didn't.

The very scientific formula is the best.

Beerfund · 11-01-2006, 03:17 PM

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Originally Posted by MJK

At the time, BOTH the Panthers and Thrasers had 1 loss, however, the Panthers had a game in hand giving them the top spot. Now that the Panthers have lost, giving them 2 on the season can you take a guess at what will happen!! They will drop. Seems simple enough to me.

Beerfund, you did NOT have a ranking in place for week 1 so because you came up with your rankings late, you have an advantage knowing who was winning and who was not. I didn't.

The very scientific formula is the best.

I'm unclear as to how a game in hand is worth more than a win.

I'm also unclear as to why a team is penalized because they were ranked incorrectly for th first week. By the second week, you could tell who was off to a good start, but you refuse to have them rewarded because they were misranked the first week.

MJK · 11-01-2006, 03:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Beerfund

I'm unclear as to how a game in hand is worth more than a win.

I never once said it was. BUT considering the Panthers and their position at the time, the very scientific formula says they are ahead of the Thrashers.

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I'm also unclear as to why a team is penalized because they were ranked incorrectly for th first week. By the second week, you could tell who was off to a good start, but you refuse to have them rewarded because they were misranked the first week.

So moving the Thrashers up every week by large margins is not rewarding them? Maybe next year I will wait a few weeks before starting my rankings as you have done. You seem to have everything in place considering you have had the benifit of seeing who would play well.

The Thrashers were ranked low in week one. They have been playing well and have thus moved up.

I look forward to see what other excuses you can come up with next. You don't like my ranking, fine. But making bold accuasations about not rewarding teams for thier performace is just weak.

OILFAN #81 · 11-01-2006, 03:42 PM

Boys boys, chillax. Both ranking systems are good! The Thrashers are happy with both and don't have a problem with either ranking system!

Beerfund · 11-01-2006, 03:51 PM

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Originally Posted by MJK

I never once said it was. BUT considering the Panthers and their position at the time, the very scientific formula says they are ahead of the Thrashers.

Sure you did...

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At the time, BOTH the Panthers and Thrasers had 1 loss, however, the Panthers had a game in hand giving them the top spot.

Also at the time the Thrashers had played one more game than the Panthers, the Thrashers one that game, so by putting your club in top spot, you give more weight to the game in hand than a Victory.

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So moving the Thrashers up every week by large margins is not rewarding them?

The Thrashers were ranked low in week one. They have been playing well and have thus moved up.
I look forward to see what other excuses you can come up with next. You don't like my ranking, fine. But making bold accuasations about not rewarding teams for thier performace is just weak.

They moved up 3 spots, while others moved up as much as five spots, some dropped as much as eight spots due to weak performances. Not necessarily BOLD accusations but critiques supported by the evidence.

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Maybe next year I will wait a few weeks before starting my rankings as you have done. You seem to have everything in place considering you have had the benifit of seeing who would play well.

I waited a few games NOT a few weeks. I answered your challenge and came up with a ranking system, one that reflected what was really happening. So far, I have been able to justify why teams are ranked where they are, and I can explain how my formula works.

KevanGuy · 11-01-2006, 03:52 PM

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Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

Boys boys, chillax. Both ranking systems are good! The Thrashers are happy with both and don't have a problem with either ranking system!

No kidding, why dont you guys talk about it on MSN or something?

MJK · 11-01-2006, 03:57 PM

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Also at the time the Thrashers had played one more game than the Panthers, the Thrashers one that game, so by putting your club in top spot, you give more weight to the game in hand than a Victory.

WRONG. We were TIED for points at the time and I had a game in hand. Not hard to put two in two together.

You can ignore and make stuff up all you want. If you refuse to answer questions with honesty I won't ask anymore.

Thanks.

MJK · 11-01-2006, 03:57 PM

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Originally Posted by KevanGuy

No kidding, why dont you guys talk about it on MSN or something?

He's scared to sign on.

OILFAN #81 · 11-01-2006, 04:03 PM

The Thrashers no longer wish to be discussed about in terms of rankings, that is all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beerfund · 11-01-2006, 04:32 PM

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Originally Posted by KevanGuy

No kidding, why dont you guys talk about it on MSN or something?

Trying to keep the post count up, no trades to comment on, so were having a debate. I was under the impression that message boards were an ok forum for such activity. If the league commish would like LESS participation I can abide by that.

MJK · 11-01-2006, 04:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Beerfund

Trying to keep the post count up, no trades to comment on, so were having a debate. I was under the impression that message boards were an ok forum for such activity. If the league commish would like LESS participation I can abide by that.

Ya man! I'm with Beerfund!

Beerfund · 11-01-2006, 04:37 PM

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Originally Posted by MJK

He's scared to sign on.

Actually, my MSN is being used by another alias for a different purpose at this time.

MJK... I'll be done in a few minutes we can continue our debate over MSN as requested. Cheers.

notoepik · 11-01-2006, 05:28 PM

How could you boys fill the board with fantasy talk of fantasy teams in a fantasy league! Sheesh

I would ask how you came up with your ranking for the Hawks, but you both agree we just aren't very good sitting there occupying 24th on both systems. So you either do agree on something, or you are both wrong as hell about the Hawks.

Don't tell me which one. :S

Beerfund · 11-01-2006, 05:32 PM

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Originally Posted by notoepik

How could you boys fill the board with fantasy talk of fantasy teams in a fantasy league! Sheesh

I'd love to discuss this with you...catch me on MSN.

KevanGuy · 11-01-2006, 05:44 PM

Wow, pretty touchy around here. I wasnt trying to be a dick or anything, just seemed to be it was more a private disucssion then a board one. But if you guys want to continue here be my guest.

MJK · 11-01-2006, 10:05 PM

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Originally Posted by KevanGuy

Wow, pretty touchy around here. I wasnt trying to be a dick or anything, just seemed to be it was more a private disucssion then a board one. But if you guys want to continue here be my guest.

Naw, You're just a dick.

Knut · 11-01-2006, 10:18 PM

I agree..... KG is a dick....

Also... i like having two rankings to look at with two different methods.... i dont think you guys should fight about it.... really i think GM's would be split over what method to base rankings on..

but,...... keep up the cripple fight.

Goffie · 11-01-2006, 10:21 PM

I like the fighting...I think it si all in good fun and adds some spice to the board!! Keep scrapping!!