The Official Iraq is supposed to be a mess thread

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

What does that have to do with the War in Iraq?

Sorry, this conspiracy just reminded me of that one.
stupid yanks.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Sorry, this conspiracy just reminded me of that one.
stupid yanks.

You don't like Americans? Too bad... I think they're a great bunch of people.

The Liberals did some stupid and corrupt things... I assume you also think 'stupid canucks'?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Sorry, this conspiracy just reminded me of that one.
stupid yanks.

so...

when official pentagon plans get implemented, it's a 'conspiracy', just because rupert murdoch isn't forcing it down your gullet?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/DK05Ak02.html

P2OG would launch secret operations aimed at "stimulating reactions" among terrorists and states possessing weapons of mass destruction, meaning it would prod terrorist cells into action, thus exposing them to "quick-response" attacks by US forces. The means by which it would do this is the far greater use of special operations forces.
...

"Source operations" generally refers to recruiting and maintaining spies within the enemy's camp. In Afghanistan, it means finding Afghans and Arabs, possibly within the Taliban and al-Qaeda network, who would supply intelligence to US special-operations forces.

in intelligence circles, infiltration means control.

see also operation gladio, when the 'stay behind' networks were carrying out terror in europe (mostly italy) to blame it on communists, but it came out later that it was all directed by NATO intelligence.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...eration+gladio
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...eration+gladio
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...eration+gladio

and yes, the bologna train bombing of 1980, in which 80+ were killed, was run by western intelligence.

school bombings, bus bombings... heartwarming stuff.

but it was like, years ago!

<groan>

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/2002/10/102802.html


One way to invigorate U.S. intelligence would be to "Develop an entirely new capability to proactively, preemptively evoke responses from adversary/terrorist groups," according to the Defense Science Board, a Pentagon advisory group.
Such an approach would "improve [intelligence] information collection by stimulating reactions" from the target.
One hundred "highly specialized people with unique technical and intelligence skills such as information operations, PSYOP, network attack, covert activities, SIGINT, HUMINT, SOF, influence warfare/deception operations" could constitute a new, elite "Proactive Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)," reporting to the National Security Council with an annual budget of $100 million.
The proposal is the latest sign of a new assertiveness by the Defense Department in intelligence matters, and an indication that the cutting edge of intelligence reform is not to be found in Congress but behind closed doors in the Pentagon.
The Defense Science Board recommended creation of the preemptive operations group in its "DSB Summer Study on Special Operations and Joint Forces in Support of Countering Terrorism."
The findings and recommendations of the DSB Summer Study were set forth in an August 16, 2002, PowerPoint briefing. The first thirty pages of the unclassified 78 page PointPoint presentation are posted here:

• http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsbbrief.ppt

The DSB briefing was first reported by Dan Dupont in Inside the Pentagon on September 26. It was also discussed by William M. Arkin in the Los Angeles Times on October 27.

it sure was:

Los Angeles Times 10/27/02: William M. Arkin

SOUTH POMFRET, Vt. -- In what may well be the largest expansion of covert action by the armed forces since the Vietnam era, the Bush administration has turned to what the Pentagon calls the "black world" to press the war on terrorism and weapons of mass destruction.

P2OG is the framework by which covert intelligence conducts its business. is it all on the level?

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

You don't like Americans? Too bad... I think they're a great bunch of people.

The Liberals did some stupid and corrupt things... I assume you also think 'stupid canucks'?

No, Canadians are too boring to make any conspiracies.
it's always the damn yanks.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by White Doors

No, Canadians are too boring to make any conspiracies.
it's always the damn yanks.

so...

conspiracy means something that wasn't on FOX news last week?

what does it mean?

publicly available plans, coming to fruition.

yeah, that must be a conspiracy!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I'm sure if Looger disagrees with what I've said he can say so. I did say that he 'might suggest' that, if he wouldn't then I'm sure he'll clarify his position. I don't see the problem here... what do you care if I try to paraphrase Looger? This is a message board for discussion, I don't believe I was off topic or out of line, and if I was, Looger can tell me so himself, he doesn't need a babysitter.

Of course he doesn't need a babysitter...which is why I said...why are you posting for him.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Of course he doesn't need a babysitter...which is why I said...why are you posting for him.

I paraphrased him. He hasn't corrected me, so I don't see the issue. I wasn't off topic or out of line. Sorry if I offended you, but I don't see where I was wrong to do it. Suck it up and move on.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I saw a show about the moon landing being fake and infact I'm pretty sure it was a FOX special.
I guess since FOX said it was fake, it actually was.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I saw a show about the moon landing being fake and infact I'm pretty sure it was a FOX special.
I guess since FOX said it was fake, it actually was.

EXACTLY

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I saw a show about the moon landing being fake and infact I'm pretty sure it was a FOX special.
I guess since FOX said it was fake, it actually was.

ha, i remember that one!

they claimed that because the flag was exposed to such extreme radiation from the sun, that it should burn up!

someone should have told them that there's no oxygen on the moon...

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Well... Looger might suggest that the business relations of leading Neo-Con politicians have made hundreds of millions of dollars off of all this. Maybe they're just greedy for cash rather than long-term political power?

i'll end that sissy fight you're having with azure by saying, that's basically what i'm getting at. add some zeroes however - the central asian pipeline is to move 4 or 5 trillion in 5 year-old prices.

and the 'secret team' never leaves office. they lose overt executive power but their interests are well-represented.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Looger

and the 'secret team' never leaves office. they lose overt executive power but their interests are well-represented.

Who are these "secret" people you are alluding to? How do you know about them if they are a secret?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Who are these "secret" people you are alluding to? How do you know about them if they are a secret?

the war party, the oil party, the wall street financiers and their agents, like cheney, kronguard, and to a lesser extent the neo-con fascist madmen that were called 'the crazies' or 'the asteroids' in the reagan administration.

they're the guys running drugs, selling weapons, money laundering, enacting their strange agendas, and they operate more loudly under the bush regimes and less loudly most other times.

the iran-contra scandal very nearly exposed the whole show but never did.

once in a while some scandal threatens to break it all open, gary webb of the san jose mercury news being maybe the best chance for the cocaine-smuggling connection to hit mainstream, before he ended up killing himself with two gun shots to the head (i'm not kidding).

it's important to remember that these guys aren't just aboot that one deal, they're involved in MANY unseemly things in this world, south america being definitely not all of it.

there's a great book called 'powder burns' written by a former top DEA guy in south america, castillo, he got photos, surveillance, everything on everyone before going public.

webster g. tarpley has also detailed a lot of this network in 'george bush: the unauthorized biography'.

the major controlling networks are commonly referred to within establishment circles as 'the secret team', i have found this reference in many books including less biting ones, even books glorifying the reagan / bush I adminstrations back when i was younger and less wise, back when i believed in the false left-right paradigm in the united states and before i realized there is an international crime syndicate involved in the most ridiculous of things.

once in a while it ALMOST breaks out but it never seems to...

dyncorp sex trafficking scandals, 40 pound heroin drug busts, etc. seem to follow these guys like lost puppies but they always manage to stay out of jail.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Looger

the war party, the oil party, the wall street financiers and their agents, like cheney, kronguard, and to a lesser extent the neo-con fascist madmen that were called 'the crazies' or 'the asteroids' in the reagan administration.

they're the guys running drugs, selling weapons, money laundering, enacting their strange agendas, and they operate more loudly under the bush regimes and less loudly most other times.

the iran-contra scandal very nearly exposed the whole show but never did.

once in a while some scandal threatens to break it all open, gary webb of the san jose mercury news being maybe the best chance for the cocaine-smuggling connection to hit mainstream, before he ended up killing himself with two gun shots to the head (i'm not kidding).

it's important to remember that these guys aren't just aboot that one deal, they're involved in MANY unseemly things in this world, south america being definitely not all of it.

there's a great book called 'powder burns' written by a former top DEA guy in south america, castillo, he got photos, surveillance, everything on everyone before going public.

webster g. tarpley has also detailed a lot of this network in 'george bush: the unauthorized biography'.

the major controlling networks are commonly referred to within establishment circles as 'the secret team', i have found this reference in many books including less biting ones, even books glorifying the reagan / bush I adminstrations back when i was younger and less wise, back when i believed in the false left-right paradigm in the united states and before i realized there is an international crime syndicate involved in the most ridiculous of things.

once in a while it ALMOST breaks out but it never seems to...

dyncorp sex trafficking scandals, 40 pound heroin drug busts, etc. seem to follow these guys like lost puppies but they always manage to stay out of jail.

Hahahaha

Oh that was good. Thanks for the laugh.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Hahahaha

Oh that was good. Thanks for the laugh.

any time.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Looger

webster g. tarpley has also detailed a lot of this network in 'george bush: the unauthorized biography'.

Tarpley IS one of those tinfoil hat wearing whackos that people should be concerned about. This is a guy who has not met a conspiracy theory he doesn't like. I keep an open mind on a lot of subject matter, but Tarpley is way over the top. If he were any more screwed up, he'd be standing next to David Icke railing on about reptilian aliens controlling our world.

I don't doubt the concept of the secret government, one that is calling the shots and providing the continuity of policy and power in the country, but I certainly wouldmn't use Tarpley as support for the case.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Tarpley IS one of those tinfoil hat wearing whackos that people should be concerned about. This is a guy who has not met a conspiracy theory he doesn't like. I keep an open mind on a lot of subject matter, but Tarpley is way over the top. If he were any more screwed up, he'd be standing next to David Icke railing on about reptilian aliens controlling our world.

I don't doubt the concept of the secret government, one that is calling the shots and providing the continuity of policy and power in the country, but I certainly wouldmn't use Tarpley as support for the case.

i wouldn't discount research even if the conclusions are mad.

newspaper reports are kinda hard for guys like tarpley to fake, he just does not have the budget.

i for one don't totally buy the constantly imminent collapse of our monetary system, precarious though its foundations are.

there are too many indirect connections between banks for them to all collapse like dominos, which sorta does happen but never close to the extent that tarpley thinks they will. here and there i'm relatively certain that money shipments will be stopped by this or that law-enforcement establishment in the interest of national security.

tarpley's book on george bush has been cited by many legitimate sources, and it is indeed a bestseller, though an underground one.

authors like webster are important to mention because they chase leads, he was the guy that helped to break the story on the kidnapping and assassination of the former italian pm aldo mora (sp?) (though they've had like 55 or 60 since the war) in the late 70s and that was instrumental in things like operation gladio breaking, which really opened a lot of eyes in europe to their own 'secret teams'. also tarpley has been active in getting some high-profile military drills stopped by appealing to citizens in affected areas, a north carolina nuclear bomb drill in one famous case. these drills have a tendency to 'go live' once in awhile.

his book on 9/11, '9/11 synthetic terror made in the USA' is getting some very serious attention lately, here's the qualifications of one of amazon.com's most serious reviewers:

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute...ople.cfm?q=105

ROBERT D. STEELE is a retired Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer. He is the founder and president of Open Source Solutions, Inc., and is an acknowledged expert on computer and information vulnerabilities. Mr. Steele holds graduate degrees in International Relations and Public Administration from Leigh University and the University of Oklahoma. He has also earned certificates in Intelligence Policy from Harvard University and in Defense Studies from the Naval War College

http://www.amazon.com/gp/discussionb...e=ReviewDetail

It is with great sadness that I conclude that this book is the strongest of the 770+ books I have reviewed here at Amazon, almost all non-fiction. I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war (see my review of Jim Bamford's "Pretext for War"), and I am forced to conclude that there is sufficient evidence to indict (not necessarily convict) Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and others of a neo-conservative neo-Nazi coup d'etat and kick-off of the clash of civilizations (see my review of "Crossing the Rubicon" as well as "State of Denial"). Most fascinatingly, the author links Samuel Huntington, author of "Clash of Civilizations" with Leo Strauss, the connecting rod between Nazi fascists and the neo-cons.
...
I sit here, a 54-year old, liberally educated, two graduate degrees, war college, a life overseas, 150 IQ or so, the number #1 Amazon reviewer for non-fiction, a former Marine Corps infantry officer, a former CIA clandestine case officer, founder of the Marine Corps Intelligence Center, and I have to tell anyone who cares to read this: I believe it. I believe it enough to want a full investigation that passes the smell test of the 9/11 families as well as objective outside observers. I believe it sufficient to indict Dick Cheney and other neo-cons. Sadly, the Executive is now in the service of corporations that benefit from high crimes and misdemeanors, rather than in the service of the American people who suffer great ill from these terrible mis-deeds.

tarpley is what he is but he's a long, long way from david icke - whom i'd recommend on entertainment alone were his books not 40 bucks.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Looger

his book on 9/11, '9/11 synthetic terror made in the USA' is getting some very serious attention lately, here's the qualifications of one of amazon.com's most serious reviewers:

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute...ople.cfm?q=105

ROBERT D. STEELE is a retired Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer. He is the founder and president of Open Source Solutions, Inc., and is an acknowledged expert on computer and information vulnerabilities. Mr. Steele holds graduate degrees in International Relations and Public Administration from Leigh University and the University of Oklahoma. He has also earned certificates in Intelligence Policy from Harvard University and in Defense Studies from the Naval War College

http://www.amazon.com/gp/discussionb...e=ReviewDetail

It is with great sadness that I conclude that this book is the strongest of the 770+ books I have reviewed here at Amazon, almost all non-fiction. I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war (see my review of Jim Bamford's "Pretext for War"), and I am forced to conclude that there is sufficient evidence to indict (not necessarily convict) Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and others of a neo-conservative neo-Nazi coup d'etat and kick-off of the clash of civilizations (see my review of "Crossing the Rubicon" as well as "State of Denial"). Most fascinatingly, the author links Samuel Huntington, author of "Clash of Civilizations" with Leo Strauss, the connecting rod between Nazi fascists and the neo-cons.
...
I sit here, a 54-year old, liberally educated, two graduate degrees, war college, a life overseas, 150 IQ or so, the number #1 Amazon reviewer for non-fiction, a former Marine Corps infantry officer, a former CIA clandestine case officer, founder of the Marine Corps Intelligence Center, and I have to tell anyone who cares to read this: I believe it. I believe it enough to want a full investigation that passes the smell test of the 9/11 families as well as objective outside observers. I believe it sufficient to indict Dick Cheney and other neo-cons. Sadly, the Executive is now in the service of corporations that benefit from high crimes and misdemeanors, rather than in the service of the American people who suffer great ill from these terrible mis-deeds.

tarpley is what he is but he's a long, long way from david icke - whom i'd recommend on entertainment alone were his books not 40 bucks.

Wow, that is quite the endorsement from someone who was/is in the intelligence community. I wonder what jolinar will think of this endorsement? I'll be curious to see what his opinion is, if he sacks up to comment on it. I must say, I may have to give that book a read. I've been hesitant to pick it up strickly on Tarpley's less than glowing character, and his less than credible video presentations.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Wow, that is quite the endorsement from someone who was/is in the intelligence community. I wonder what jolinar will think of this endorsement? I'll be curious to see what his opinion is, if he sacks up to comment on it. I must say, I may have to give that book a read. I've been hesitant to pick it up strickly on Tarpley's less than glowing character, and his less than credible video presentations.

it's the only book on the subject to my knowledge (though i haven't read chussodevsky's) that goes into the level of nuclear alert that was reached on 9/11, something i've heard from other sources as well. interesting to note how many US fighters were on maneuvers in northern canada, alaska, and iceland.

it's a good read, and yeah tarpley is a peculiar kind of guy and i disagree with him mightily on his political stance, highlited when i asked him questions on some 9/11 issues. i prefaced by telling him and the rest of california in what can be called a (ahem) liberal environment, what happens when labour unions get out of control and why the previous questioners should be careful what they wish for. he ignored my question and asked me to clarify my preface, i think he sees major corporate monopolies running every union. at that point the cameraman capturing the talk asked me, 'how can unions have too much power?'

i in fact ended the question-and-answer session!

i guess i was just in the wrong environment to get straight answers from anyone, not least because it was midnight and 90+ degrees.

when you investigate conspiracies i believe you will start to see them everywhere. the perfect guy to investigate the real deal!

[White Doors]

when you investigate conspiracies i believe you will start to see them everywhere

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