Quebec's Racism

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

also, just wondering... What are your thoughts on the Japanese internment?

there can never be justification for what happened to many Canadians and Americans of Japanese origin, but dont forget that Japanese people themselves can be extremely racist and protectionist as well. just try to go to Japan and marry and Japanese girl and see how you will be accepted into society.

every single community, no matter what color or ethnicity has their racists and bigots. to tell you the truth, some of my asian acquaintances can say the most racist stuff at times out of anyone i know....although its mostly directed at other asians and blacks. it's all a big vicious circle, with one blaming the next for their troubles.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I wonder has the press has ever done any features on this situation. If the local press doesn't see it as a story I bet the national press will. I could see the Fifth Estate being interested. They could do an undercover survey of all the major cities in Canada to see which had the worsed night clubs.

Yeah the local press does a story on it from time to time. Last one was about 6 months ago I think.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by Table 5

there can never be justification for what happened to many Canadians and Americans of Japanese origin, but dont forget that Japanese people themselves can be extremely racist and protectionist as well. just try to go to Japan and marry and Japanese girl and see how you will be accepted into society.

every single community, no matter what color or ethnicity has their racists and bigots. to tell you the truth, some of my asian acquaintances can say the most racist stuff at times out of anyone i know....although its mostly directed at other asians and blacks. it's all a big vicious circle, with one blaming the next for their troubles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeK0Trz9E0

Related video...

[jolinar of malkshor]

No your not. Your saying don't pick someone out becuase of the way they look. Intellengence would say focus on the target group.

Not every single white person, no. But there is no need to be checking black people. We would check the target group. Younger-middle aged white males. Can you image if it was the other way, and the target group was a minority....oh the public out cry....they are doing it because they are racisit.

It seems to me that you are not understanding what profiling means. It doesnt mean you question every person of a particular group, it means you focus your resources on that group. It's like rolling two dice, odds are that 7 will be rolled more often then any other combination, so focus your resources on 7. You dont have to eliminate the other possibilities but the closer you get to 2 or 12 the less likely you will roll them...so....focus your attention on number 7.

As I have stated, it would optimize ones resources.

Not sure what your getting at here...but, if your talking about WWII here in Canada, I think that was a total abuse of human rights and I think that this situation has nothing to do with what were talking about now.

Profiling people and putting people into camps to verify their loyalty or prevent possible corroboration with the enemy at two totally different things.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Jayems

I won't post the link, but the comments on youtube on that Global TV racism in Calgary bars is sick.

Because it's a sick practice and it's not changing. Calgary is like in the racist stone age when it comes to bars around here. I love this city but my experiences with that aspect of it really feels demeaning to be discriminated against so much that I don't even bother going unless I have white friends with me because I know I'm not getting in as it's happened enough times.

[Hack&Lube]

delete double post

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Because it's a sick practice and it's not changing. Calgary is like in the racist stone age when it comes to bars around here. I love this city but my experiences with that aspect of it really feels demeaning to be discriminated against so much that I don't even bother going unless I have white friends with me because I know I'm not getting in as it's happened enough times.

the bars that are doing that crap are full of jockohomo roid heads and annoying princesses anyway. trust me, the bouncers are doing you a favour by keeping you out.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Because it's a sick practice and it's not changing. Calgary is like in the racist stone age when it comes to bars around here. I love this city but my experiences with that aspect of it really feels demeaning to be discriminated against so much that I don't even bother going unless I have white friends with me because I know I'm not getting in as it's happened enough times.

Racial Profiling really isn't fair, but at the same time... ethnic groups are more prone to violence in clubs. I don't have stats on-hand, but I've seen some before, and they obviously exist. I mean, I highly doubt a business as un-pretentious and "traditional" as nightclubs would turn away someone cause of ethnicity... they want cash, anyone's cash, and unless there's a good reason for it, they don't care what you look like.

One violent incident where someone gets stabbed, shot or killed, and that nightclub is finished. Its happened to a few in this city and that's a risk that many owners are not willing to take.

Is it fair to decent people like you? No.
Is it fair for these people to lose their business' reputation cause of a few *******s? No.

Somewhere a middle ground needs to be found, but if racial profiling is truly keeping nightclubs safe, maybe the police need to step up and find a more egalitarian solution.

I should add... I hate nightclubs, and haven't gone to one by choice in a long time.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I mean, I highly doubt a business as un-pretentious and "traditional" as nightclubs would turn away someone cause of ethnicity... they want cash, anyone's cash, and unless there's a good reason for it, they don't care what you look like.

This is sarcasm right?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Barnes

This is sarcasm right?

Up to the part about wanting cash, a little.

[Flames in 07]

The only type of racial profiling I think is acceptable is airport security.

Profiling is demeaning, insiensitive and destructive to society, but the only thing worse than that is flying planes into buildings.

[Winsor_Pilates]

No your not. Your saying don't pick someone out becuase of the way they look. Intellengence would say focus on the target group.

First off, it's you're, not your. Lets get that out of the way before you start talking about intellegence.

Secondly, thanks for telling me what I'm saying. Why don't you just type for me?
You implied that I want to single out everyone of every race just to be fair. I never said that anywhere.
I'm saying that intellegence should narrow down the focus group and go beyond just the way a person looks. For example, a little intellegence can help you tell the difference between a muslim and a sikh. Can you do so?

If people could, they wouldn't have to look at every sikh as if they're an Islamic terrorist when they board a plane. Narrowing in on all brown people, as you don't mind doing is a major waste of resources.

Can you image if it was the other way, and the target group was a minority....oh the public out cry....they are doing it because they are racisit.

Imagine it? It is the other way around. What do you think we're talking about here? Calgary nightclubs, airport security. They havn't been profiling white people.
Can YOU imagine if it was the other way around? if we checked every white person who boarded a plane? or didn't let 75% of them into clubs? It wouldn't happen.
Because when a white guy does something stupid (terrorism, murder etc.) it's just 1 guy. When a coloured person does it, it's systemic and people like you get scared and call for profiling.

Not sure what your getting at here...but, if your talking about WWII here in Canada, I think that was a total abuse of human rights and I think that this situation has nothing to do with what were talking about now.

Sure it does. It's an extreme example of racial profiling. The only difference between that and what you support, is where to draw the line. You think it's fine to watch and question a certain group, they thought it was fine to lock them up.

[Hack&Lube]

Let me say that you don't know how racism feels unless you've experienced it.

[jolinar of malkshor]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

First off, it's you're, not your. Lets get that out of the way before you start talking about intellegence.

First off, I don't give a **** if my response happens to have a few grammatical errors. Like a lot of people I am responding from work and our server is so slow that I can type 5 words ahead of the blinky line, so if I made a mistake I am not going back to correct it. If thats what you want to bitch about go read a published article. Debate the topic not the grammar, pathetic.

Secondly, thanks for telling me what I'm saying. Why don't you just type for me?

Your welcome any time

You implied that I want to single out everyone of every race just to be fair. I never said that anywhere.

Yes you are, you posted:

Asking the question is wrong. Assuming someone is guilty because of the colour of their skin is wrong. They should be treated fairly until they give reason for otherwise.
I would argue that the stores that profile youth are wrong as well.
And it doesn't matter if there's a choice to shop there. Having to make that choice because of discrimination is wrong. In Canada, we shouldn't have to make that choice

What you are saying is don't suspect anyone unless they have done something personally. That means, EVERYONE should be treated the same. And I don't think I said you said "I want every person singled out of every race" I didn't say that, but by what you say, don't suspect someone just because of the way they look or who they hang out with.....thats wrong....it shouldn't be done here in Canada......

I'm saying that intellegence should narrow down the focus group and go beyond just the way a person looks. For example, a little intellegence can help you tell the difference between a muslim and a sikh. Can you do so?

Thats what I have been saying but according to you, that is wrong, don't do it based on colour of skin. Never did I say check EVERYONE....find where I said that.....thats right you can't.....don't talk to me about intellegence buddy.

If people could, they wouldn't have to look at every sikh as if they're an Islamic terrorist when they board a plane. Narrowing in on all brown people, as you don't mind doing is a major waste of resources.

Again please show me where I said that????????? I thought so.

Imagine it? It is the other way around. What do you think we're talking about here? Calgary nightclubs, airport security. They havn't been profiling white people.

Bull****, most of their searches are based on random searches or questionable material found on the X-ray machine. I don't know how many times I have see them have 90 year old people take their belt off, and do body pat downs. They even check the pilots of the airplanes for God sakes. Real smart.

As for the bars, I beleive they do base some of their refusals on race but don't tell me only white people can get in. My one buddy quite frequently gets refused because he is over 300 pounds and not the most attractive person around. So it happens to everyone. They want good looking people that have a lot of money to spend, it's as simple as that. Hell even Cowboys brings in models from the USA during stampede just to have them walk around and look good, hoping to attract the big wig office types.

Can YOU imagine if it was the other way around? if we checked every white person who boarded a plane? or didn't let 75% of them into clubs? It wouldn't happen.

Thats because white people aren't blowing up planes, boats, building, solidars, trains and every other thing on a regular basis.

Because when a white guy does something stupid (terrorism, murder etc.) it's just 1 guy. When a coloured person does it, it's systemic and people like you get scared and call for profiling.

It usually is. But there are many situations where this is not true. Hells angels, white supremesits, IRA, FLQ, Mafia.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Your welcome any time

Still at work on that slow server? or is slow server an alias for your brain?

Now on to the topic...

What you are saying is don't suspect anyone unless they have done something personally. That means, EVERYONE should be treated the same. And I don't think I said you said "I want every person singled out of every race" I didn't say that, but by what you say, don't suspect someone just because of the way they look or who they hang out with.....thats wrong....it shouldn't be done here in Canada......

I'm NOT saying single out everyone in an attempt to treat everyone equal. I AM saying do not single out anyone, unless they've done something wrong or suspisious.

There's a difference between treating everyone the same by questioning them all, and treating everyone the same by not questioning anyone unless warrented.
You implied that I suggested the first, when I only suggested the second. You may disagree all you like, but atleast make some effort to practice some reading comprehension, and argue with what I've actually said.
Do not put words in my mouth.

Thats what I have been saying but according to you, that is wrong, don't do it based on colour of skin. Never did I say check EVERYONE....find where I said that.....thats right you can't.....don't talk to me about intellegence buddy.

I said don't check based on skin colour alone, and you argued with me. Now you're trying to say that what you've been saying is look beyond skin colour. Make up your mind.
Is it ok to profile based on colour, or not?

And sorry that I talked to you about intellegence. I didn't mean to push you beyond you limits. Next time I'll try to talk about stupidity.

Bull****, most of their searches are based on random searches or questionable material found on the X-ray machine. I don't know how many times I have see them have 90 year old people take their belt off, and do body pat downs. They even check the pilots of the airplanes for God sakes. Real smart.

You would like to believe that. It's not true and it's not even debatable.

As for the bars, I beleive they do base some of their refusals on race but don't tell me only white people can get in. My one buddy quite frequently gets refused because he is over 300 pounds and not the most attractive person around.

2 wrongs don't make a right. I feel bad for your friend. I know what it's like to be refused entry based on a physical trait. Not cool.
I'm not sure why that's relevant though. Are you suggesting that a fat guy getting denied as well, justifies racism? strange logic.

Thats because white people aren't blowing up planes, boats, building, solidars, trains and every other thing on a regular basis.

Neither are most brown people. Exactly my point.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Good one.

So check no one then? If your logic worked then 9-11 wouldn't have happened. Because they weren't profiling.

Again, this approach obviously doesn't work. 9-11 happened because questions weren't being asked.

And I never said check based on skin colour alone, what I said was RISK MANAGEMENT.....can you not understand this?????????? You don't need to check every brown person either, but concentrate on that group. Instead of checking little old ladies, check the people that fit the profile, middle age men, traveling alone, brown skinned, oneway ticket. Can you understand that? It doesn't mean that you have tunnel vision and thats all you check for but that is most certainly where most of the resources should be focused.

I can't understand why people on this site have to name call....oh thats right... usually this happens when people aren't winning and arguement.

This statement alone tells me how ignorant you are of this topic. I work for a government agency that deals with Transport Canada and CATSA on a daily basis. And this happens hourly. So take your "it's not true" statement and blow it down your pipe hole.

I am not saying two wrongs don't make a right, I am not even saying your example isn't right. I am saying that when it happens to white people no one chalks it up to racism when it really is (uglism).

Notice I didn't say most white people??, I agree that most brown people aren't doing it either, but only brown people are doing it. Get my point yet.

Doesn't really matter because your going to chalk me up as another redneck racist. If their was a crazy group of white boys blowing up people I would say look at that category of people. When are you going to understand it is not Racism??? It's called trying to do the best with a limited amount of resources.

Whats going to happen is another killing spree is going to happen and then your going to blame the security people for not doing a good job. Thats how people like you operate.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I suppose in a sense there is a loss of dignity. You mentioned about the folly of labeling all whites as racists because of a few white supremacists. Well what if they dress like the skin heads? Am I causing them an undue loss of dignity if I asked them if they are? I think harm is done if I label them as such and treat them differently without the question. I think just as much harm is done if I don't ask and let a threat to my small community walk about unchallenged.

i shave my head. i am white. i get the skinhead label a lot. its a huge ****off. a lot of people see this labeling as not a big deal but are quite vocal against sexism and racism.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Ok, Last response to you and then I'll move on to avoid a ****ing match.

So check no one then? If your logic worked then 9-11 wouldn't have happened. Because they weren't profiling.

Again, this approach obviously doesn't work. 9-11 happened because questions weren't being asked.

Check those who are acting suspicious. For example the people who pulled off 9-11. They were engaging in all sorts of suspicious activity and were not in the country legally. The US government new that something like this may have been coming. I'm all for more security on suspects like that.
They should be monitored more closely, but it still may not have prevented 9-11.
I'm not claiming that my logic would have prevented 9-11. If I knew how to prevent terrorist attacks I'd be talking to someone more important then any CP member.
But your logic certainly hasn't worked. Since 9-11 the US and much of the western world has upped their profiling of the "target group" and even gone around the world to kill them all.
Has terrorism stopped? are terrorist groups any smaller or less threatoning today?

You don't need to check every brown person either, but concentrate on that group. Instead of checking little old ladies, check the people that fit the profile, middle age men, traveling alone, brown skinned, oneway ticket. Can you understand that?

Sounds good. You should have said that in the first place.

This statement alone tells me how ignorant you are of this topic. I work for a government agency that deals with Transport Canada and CATSA on a daily basis. And this happens hourly. So take your "it's not true" statement and blow it down your pipe hole.

I wasn't saying that old ladies and everyone else doesn't get searched. The not true part I was refering to was where you dismissed racial profiling as simply random.
If it's all random, why have we had this whole argument about racial profiling anyway?

Doesn't really matter because your going to chalk me up as another redneck racist.

Whats going to happen is another killing spree is going to happen and then your going to blame the security people for not doing a good job. Thats how people like you operate.

People like me? I never called you a racist redneck, but you've clearly chalked me up.

And if another terrorist attack happens, I won't blame security. I will blame the terrorists who did it and the people who breed more of them through intolerence, ignorance and racism.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

i shave my head. i am white. i get the skinhead label a lot. its a huge ****off. a lot of people see this labeling as not a big deal but are quite vocal against sexism and racism.

And how does the question hurt you. I mean I could see it if you were being accused of it but, simply asking if you are is better than not asking and assuming.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Ok, Last response to you and then I'll move on to avoid a ****ing match.

Actually many of the terrorists of 9-11 entered the USA legally. Once they get in, it is not hard to disappear.

It hasn't? What about the failed attempts in the UK and Canada? And those are only the ones we know about.

No, infact they may be getting larger, but they are more disorganized.

Because I am arguing for more profiling and you are arguing against using profiling.

Your right, you never did, I apologize, but you did call me a few other names.

Who might they be?