TV Help - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

nfotiu · 09-05-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

HDMI is a Digital signal, so the signal is either good or it isn't. Don't buy the sales pitch for Monster cables. There is nothing wrong with them, other than they are cost about 5 times more than they should.

This is not true. Bad cables will can cause signal loss (especially over longer runs, ie 15 feet). This can cause tiling and sparklies. I've even seen this on freeby, shorter dvi cables.

Monster does not make good cables though, and if the store bobblehead mentioned has a good reputation, I would bet they were better than Monster.

If the cable is less than 15 feet, most of the $30 cables should be perfect. Longer than that, you'll have to do some research and find a higher quality cable.

Bobblehead · 09-05-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfotiu

This is not true. Bad cables will can cause signal loss (especially over longer runs, ie 15 feet). This can cause tiling and sparklies. I've even seen this on freeby, shorter dvi cables.

Monster does not make good cables though, and if the store bobblehead mentioned has a good reputation, I would bet they were better than Monster.

If the cable is less than 15 feet, most of the $30 cables should be perfect. Longer than that, you'll have to do some research and find a higher quality cable.

It would have to be a bad cable. HDMI is a digital spec, so the same as sat or digital TV, as long as the signal is decent then (with error correction) you won't see an issue.

I'll grant you that if you have a long cable it will need to be shielded to prevent too much loss, but unlike an analogue signal spending a lot of extra money to get a slightly better cable will not be worth it.

underGRADFlame · 09-05-2006, 10:19 AM

ACC has great quality Cables and the cheapest around to boot. Moster Cable is the biggest scam going in consumer electronics.
If you were going to spend 15,000 on a TV and 10,000 on a sound system then I can see spending the money on the cables just due to the fact you have the money to do it, but the difference between a $150 Monster Cable HDMI 6' Cable and a $19 ACC HDMI 6' Cable is not there unless you live inside a power plant or surround yourself with high powered electro magnets. And if you do surround yourself in electro magnets the quality of your cable anit gonna make a difference cause your tv with see the interfence itself. Just say no to Monster Cable.

brownie · 09-05-2006, 10:19 AM

So where is the best spot to go to pick up a big screen???I am getting one before the season starts but havent done any shopping around yet.I'd like something around 2000.Is an LCD your best option??Thanks for the info

underGRADFlame · 09-05-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownie

So where is the best spot to go to pick up a big screen???I am getting one before the season starts but havent done any shopping around yet.I'd like something around 2000.Is an LCD your best option??Thanks for the info

Soundsourrond is having there big sale next weekend, I would try that. Other then that just shop around, as for LCD vs Plasma its all about personal taste and what fits your buget.

nfotiu · 09-05-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

It would have to be a bad cable. HDMI is a digital spec, so the same as sat or digital TV, as long as the signal is decent then (with error correction) you won't see an issue.

I'll grant you that if you have a long cable it will need to be shielded to prevent too much loss, but unlike an analogue signal spending a lot of extra money to get a slightly better cable will not be worth it.

There is no error correction in HDMI:

Quote:

Second, it is a flawed assumption to suppose that digital signal handling is always error-free. DVI and HDMI signals aren't subject to error correction; once information is lost, it's lost for good. That is not a consideration with well-made cable over short distances, but can easily become a factor at distance.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...icomponent.htm

Bobblehead · 09-05-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfotiu

There is no error correction in HDMI:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...icomponent.htm

Well crap, I stand corrected.

That was a pretty stupid design decision. CD has error correction - that should be part of any robust digital transmission spec.

Thanks for the link, my assumption made an ass of me.

Rhettzky · 09-05-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownie

So where is the best spot to go to pick up a big screen???I am getting one before the season starts but havent done any shopping around yet.I'd like something around 2000.Is an LCD your best option??Thanks for the info

Well from my experience I learned a few things.

Go and look at lots of TV's. I think in total I saw hundreds of different models. Also, make sure that you can see the TV at a good distance. The Best Buy I went to at one point had the smallest freaking isles that you couldn't view the TV from a good distance.

If you are going to go for a 42" TV than I recommend you stay away from anything that is projection. I didn't see many but there was a couple and they are way thicker than a straight LCD and IMO the quality was lower.

Do a bunch of research to find out the difference between all the models and price differences so you can understand a great bargain when one comes up. But as soon as you have made your purchase stop researching. You always be disappointed if you do this.

Bobblehead · 09-05-2006, 01:53 PM

And now I backtrack....

Yes, there is error correction in the HDMI spec.
Here is the actual spec sheet from HDMI.org

Quote:

To improve the reliability of the data and to improve the detection of bad data, Error Correction Code (ECC) parity is added to each packet.

So that article linked earlier must be out of date (a Cable manufacturer wouldn't have anything to gain by convincing people to purchase expensive cables, would they?)

nfotiu · 09-05-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

And now I backtrack....

Yes, there is error correction in the HDMI spec.
Here is the actual spec sheet from HDMI.org

So that article linked earlier must be out of date (a Cable manufacturer wouldn't have anything to gain by convincing people to purchase expensive cables, would they?)

Can't argue with that, guess i'm the ass now. I still contend that you can have a crappy cable that produces a flawed image (sparklies and pixellation) over long distances though, because I've seen it. Maybe too much error correction creates bad pixels, or packets lose too much data to be properly reconstructed.

ken0042 · 09-05-2006, 08:44 PM

Most of my TV geekyness is with analog; but combine that with what I know of computers I think I might have a theory.

What happens to a lost packet? On a regular network if there's a packet loss the receiving device lets the sending device know of the failed packet; and to re-send it. Is there enough time for the TV to tell the HD box to re-send the packet? And if not; how does the TV display that lost packet? And is there a greater chance of losing said packets over a longer distance?

As I said I'm just spitballing here. Not sure if I'm on the right track or not.

MonsieurFish · 09-05-2006, 09:36 PM

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=28333

that could help? could not, but there it is

Bobblehead · 09-05-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Can't argue with that, guess i'm the ass now. I still contend that you can have a crappy cable that produces a flawed image (sparklies and pixellation) over long distances though, because I've seen it. Maybe too much error correction creates bad pixels, or packets lose too much data to be properly reconstructed.

I've still read about some issues in long runs - HDMI.org says if the cab;e manufacturers follow the specs it should be alright, but is sounds like some other cable makers may not be following spec. I don't doubt you can get issues like the ones you mention, but a decent cable manufacturer should be able to make HDMI cables that don't cost anywhere near $100. No worries, I just don't want people finding this thread after Christmas and thinking they need to spend another $100 on cables when $30 cables can do the job just as well.

When I initially googled "HDMI error correction" there are a lot of links to articles saying that there is no error correction, but I thought it strange that most of them were the same article repeated. It looks like that article is a marketing effort.

KootenayFlamesFan · 09-05-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

If you are going to go for a 42" TV than I recommend you stay away from anything that is projection. I didn't see many but there was a couple and they are way thicker than a straight LCD and IMO the quality was lower.

Hmm. I bought a Sony Wega recently and am pretty happy with it. It's a 42 inch LCD rear projection. And not very thick, either.

I guess it just depends what you want. I wanted a 42 inch, somewhere around $1500, and decent picture quality. I understand it's not as good of a quality as say a pure LCD or plasma, but when I was looking there wasn't much for sales, and all decent LCDs and plasmas were well over $2000, and most of those weren't as big as 42 inch.

But I agree you should make sure you look at quite a few before you make your choice.

MonsieurFish · 11-10-2006, 05:33 PM

k we just got a new sony hdtv... 1080p resolution. now so far im slightly disappointed, the regular channels look pretty blurry, and in the top left its saying 480i, but when we go to a hdtv channel, it says 1080i. is that just how it is or is there any way to enhance the normal channels quality?

Ironhorse · 11-10-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurFish

the regular channels look pretty blurry, and in the top left its saying 480i, but when we go to a hdtv channel, it says 1080i. is that just how it is or is there any way to enhance the normal channels quality?

The TV is just showing you what the input resolution is that is being received. The Wega engine then upconverts the signal to 1080 in order to fill your screen.

As far as blurryness, I haven't really noticed with mine (XBR40). I've actually been fairly impressed with how non HD channels are still looking pretty darn good on full screen (not nearly as good as HD though

). The HDMI cable makes a big difference.

What Sony did you get?

MonsieurFish · 11-10-2006, 07:12 PM

we got.... sony KDL40V2500 if i am not mistaken. 40" hdtv thats apparently supposed to be very good. i think that im getting more used to this tv now and its actually quite impressive, just not nearly as good as when in hdtv.

Vulcan · 11-10-2006, 11:43 PM

Every TV is different but what I do for SD hockey games is to run the Sat. receiver into my VCR and then into my TV by composite. I have the settings for that input turned down. Contrast is way lower to make the picture softer. For me this helps. Make a record of settings so you can easily return to the default but play around with these. I've also heard it's a good idea to get a AV DVD to help you set up your TV. Usually out of box settings are overly bright and harsh.

MonsieurFish · 11-12-2006, 12:49 PM

i was talking to someone yesterday who has a similar set up to ours, and he said that he put a splitter into the cable coming from the wall, and attached it to the tv AND the cable box, where as right now, without the splitter i believe we only have it attached to the cable box. he siad this improved his picture. do you guys think this'd help me?

ken0042 · 11-12-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurFish

he siad this improved his picture. do you guys think this'd help me?

No. I cannot see how it would. Unless of course he is talking about using an analog input and using the TV's capabilities to process the analog signal. If that is the case, you end up with a softer picture that has fewer artifacts. What I would do to test this is use a composite output from your HD box, and use that input on non-HD channels to see if it gives you a better picture.