Basement Work

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

Also, using 24" OC studs, allows you to use your drywall on full 8' runs, where 16" OC would leave you with more wasted drywall. Wastage=Money

I don't think so.

[ken0042]

MGF- your math is flawed. Keep in mind the exterior walls will be framed; and even if they are only framed half way down I'm sure Prottotype will frame the rest consistant with what the builder puts in. So that is why I used 80 feet of walls in my example; because we are talking about interior walls. And seeing as I am in the process of framing the exact same basement I know my 80 feet is a gosss over estimation. Myself I will have about 30 feet of interior walls when all the dust settles.

I'm still trying to figure out how you think 16" OC will give you wasted dryall.

Bottom line is to double check what the City asks for. As for me 16" OC was an easy choice; partly because I wanted the extra lateral strength- because I wouldn't put it past one of my buddies putting another buddy in head lock and running into a wall.

[Shazam]

He's saying that because you'll have to break the drywall pieces to fit 16"OC. But I don't think that's correct - both 16"OC and 24"OC will fit 8' drywall.

[V]

Yeah, 8*12=96

96/16=6

96/24=4

They'll both fit.

[Eddie Bronze]

This thread is great, I love reading you guys talk about this stuff.

There is one big difference in 24" oc and 16" oc. Price. When you are in the business of building homes, the extra studs you are putting in your house for 16" oc make little sense.

Also consider this. When wood framing, it's not always easy to get studs that are 100% straight. Many of them are twisted or crowned. We have to pick through them on every house to get the best ones. Even after you build the walls, they will still twist and crown. From the time we've started a house to the time we finish it, we do have to replace studs from time to time.

Now think about that and what 16" oc studs will do to drywall compared to 24" oc. You put more studs in there so there is more chance for a stud to crown and cause a big wave, or worse yet, crack your wall. Even if they don't crown, unless you are using finger-jointed studs, you are going to have some in-out to worry about. Less studs means less in-out to worry about. "in-out" is just a term I'm using to describe how studs will look if you were to put a 8' level against them. They'll almost never line up perfectly flush with one another. They'll be close, but perfection is rare in wood. So less studs is good. Less chance for waves in your walls.

Also, you have less screw heads so your mudding is quicker. That saves time and labour for the drywallers and the mudders. It also saves time for the insulators because you have less wall cavaties to fill in. Framers have less studs to put in the wall so it saves us time building. Electricians (and plumbers) have less studs to drill through, more time saved. I know a lot of that seems small, but in the end, it all adds up.

Also see some of you talking about drywall. Most builders are using 12' just as much, if not more than 8'.

I was going to say something else but have completely lost my train of thought at this point. Hope some of this helps.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by ken0042

MGF- your math is flawed. Keep in mind the exterior walls will be framed; and even if they are only framed half way down I'm sure Prottotype will frame the rest consistant with what the builder puts in. So that is why I used 80 feet of walls in my example; because we are talking about interior walls. And seeing as I am in the process of framing the exact same basement I know my 80 feet is a gosss over estimation. Myself I will have about 30 feet of interior walls when all the dust settles.

I'm still trying to figure out how you think 16" OC will give you wasted dryall.

Bottom line is to double check what the City asks for. As for me 16" OC was an easy choice; partly because I wanted the extra lateral strength- because I wouldn't put it past one of my buddies putting another buddy in head lock and running into a wall.

Now that I look at it, yes, my math was whack. I see 16" OC, I input 18" on the calculator, because when i saw 16", I registered 1/6 (drafting shortcut for 1'-6") and thats why i used 18". Math never was my forte. I also didn't assume a builder would install your furring walls in an un-finished basement. Thats why its called un-finished, there is no finished walls. So, if you got your furring walls from your builder, good for you I guess, and that makes your numbers are more accurate.

[Shazam]

Also consider this. When wood framing, it's not always easy to get studs that are 100% straight. Many of them are twisted or crowned. We have to pick through them on every house to get the best ones. Even after you build the walls, they will still twist and crown. From the time we've started a house to the time we finish it, we do have to replace studs from time to time.

Well most people buy #2s for studs when developing the basement. As long as you buy your wood from a reputable place (not orange logo place or four letter place), you'll get very, very few twisted/crowned/checked pieces.

Heck I'd buy #1s if they were available in retail channels.

Waves should be mitigated by placing crowns the same direction. I know for your framers that's an impossible thing to do because of time constraints but for DYI basement framing it's fine.

Also see some of you talking about drywall. Most builders are using 12' just as much, if not more than 8'.

12' drywall is really really hard for a DYI to deal with, especially if you're not dealing with a walkout basement.

[burn_baby_burn]

I just finished my basement. It is about 900 sq ft, two bedrooms, one bathroom, a utility room, laundry room, and a large family room. I would say the cost has been around $10,000 to $12,000. The framing was allready done when we bought the house. So that price does not include that. The drywall came to around $4000. I even knew a guy at the drywall place and I picked it up and put it in the basement myself, so I saved a little there. I didn't install it myself though and that cost me about $2800. The cheapest or best price we found anywhere on carpet was at the Home Depot. $2200 installed with the hyper allergen underlay. The electical I had down by a 3rd year apprentice who charged $40 an hour. I think it was about $1200 total for suppleies and labour. The plumber worked after hours for cash and he charged $25 per hour. I laid tile on the bathroom floor myself. We did all the painting and base boards and hung all the doors our selfs. When it comes to supplies we found that nobody has a better prices than home depot.

[Bingo]

another tip ...

go nuts on lighting, give yourself lots of options in different zones, three ways, dimmers, go crazy.

My basement is a rec room, a bed room, a bathroom, then two closed in storage rooms.

The rec room has a 30x18 space with three different activity splits (theatre room on one side, bar in the middle, and a play room on the other side that will eventually be a pool table). I put in 3 zones of halogens (18 total), three wall sconces, two hanging flutes over the bar, another fixture behind the bar ... all in all there are like 27 bulbs in the area on four zones, all four three ways with entry and behind the bar controls.

Takes a lot of wiring, but it's worth it to have a nice bright option downstairs in the dead of winter.

[Reaper]

Just to add to the topic of lighting, if you can add lots of lights then make sure you consider indirect perimeter lighting for your television/theatre area. You would not believe the effect it can have on the room. For me, it is so much more pleasant than overhead lights and with the right reflective material in the lighting trough you can have some great lighting effects for very little wiring hassle.

[V]

How tall are your ceilings? I've never really liked indirect lighting if you've got an 8' ceiling, because then your light is suspended at a maximum of 7' A.F.F. It does brighten up your ceiling nicely, though, and that does a ton to get rid of the cave or dungeon effect you get in basements.

If I had the money I'd build myself some nice cove lighting along the perimiter of my basement. Of course, I'd have 9' ceilings so that I could use some nice indirect fluorescents, plus I'd have some nice pendant mount halogens above the bar. The games room would have to have sheilded pots, as the indirect fixtures would get in the way of a ping pong game.

I'm not a big fan of sconces. Cove lighting does such a better job, but of course it's a hekuva lot more money.

[Bingo]

before I get a froofy of a reputation ... the sconces are those film strip looking things for the theatre room.

if a sconce can be cool this be them!

[Eddie Bronze]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Waves should be mitigated by placing crowns the same direction. I know for your framers that's an impossible thing to do because of time constraints but for DYI basement framing it's fine.

If I didn't take the time to crown the studs the same way, I'd be fired. It's still not bulletproof though. Moisture can cause them to swell and heat can cause them to shrink.

[MacDougalbry]

Originally Posted by Eddie Bronze

If I didn't take the time to crown the studs the same way, I'd be fired. It's still not bulletproof though. Moisture can cause them to swell and heat can cause them to shrink.

You haven't mentioned yet the little trick where you slice the stud 3/4 of the way through, bend it straight, and then put a nail in to keep it from falling apart. I saw this a lot on my house, particularly on the 2x6 exterior walls. I was going through some photos I took of my house from framing stage and noticed where they had done this on a structural member... a built up column (5x 2x6). Amazing what passes city inspection, and that was trivial compared to the major FU on my home that the city never caught.

On another note... Calgary doesn't have "expansive clay soils" like they have in other praries towns, does it? In places like Winnipeg or Regina, basement partition walls must be build as "floating" so that there is a gap between the top of the wall and the joists in case the basement floor slab starts to heave up.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Eddie Bronze

If I didn't take the time to crown the studs the same way, I'd be fired. It's still not bulletproof though. Moisture can cause them to swell and heat can cause them to shrink.

Well I'm glad they make you take the time

But I'll tell ya, my #2 2X4s haven't moved a bit since I framed three weeks ago.

[Eddie Bronze]

Originally Posted by MacDougalbry

You haven't mentioned yet the little trick where you slice the stud 3/4 of the way through, bend it straight, and then put a nail in to keep it from falling apart. I saw this a lot on my house, particularly on the 2x6 exterior walls. I was going through some photos I took of my house from framing stage and noticed where they had done this on a structural member... a built up column (5x 2x6). Amazing what passes city inspection, and that was trivial compared to the major FU on my home that the city never caught.

That's because we don't do hack jobs like the guys who framed your house. And there are a lot of those guys out there. With the guy I work for, stuff like that is unacceptable. If we can't find 5 straight studs to build a post with, you crown the studs the opposite way and they will straighten each other out once they are nailed together. That's the proper technique, not cutting a weight bearing stud. The guys that did that should have been black-listed.

[Eddie Bronze]

Originally Posted by Shazam

But I'll tell ya, my #2 2X4s haven't moved a bit since I framed three weeks ago.

Hey I believe you man, but we're not always lucky enough to get good material. The example I'll give you is this. Yesterday I was working for my boss' brother. I had to build an arch into the dining area and the wall had to be furred out with 3/8's OSB. The opening was butting into an exterior wall. I couldn't flush up either side of the stud butting into that exterior because it was 5 3/8 width and the one in the exterior was 5 1/2, which is normal size. We have no extra studs so what do we do? All we can do with something like that is get it as close as possible. The only other thing I could think of was to rip down a 1/8 strip but to do that by hand is next to near impossible.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Eddie Bronze

Hey I believe you man, but we're not always lucky enough to get good material. The example I'll give you is this. Yesterday I was working for my boss' brother. I had to build an arch into the dining area and the wall had to be furred out with 3/8's OSB. The opening was butting into an exterior wall. I couldn't flush up either side of the stud butting into that exterior because it was 5 3/8 width and the one in the exterior was 5 1/2, which is normal size. We have no extra studs so what do we do? All we can do with something like that is get it as close as possible. The only other thing I could think of was to rip down a 1/8 strip but to do that by hand is next to near impossible.

I hear what you're saying. It's just a lot easier to get decent wood if you're doing a DIY job.