Rumor Control: Fidel Castro had died

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why do you think there are so many exiles to begin with?

Something aint quite right when a family will jump into any floating device they can find and hope they dont die trying to reach the Florida coast.

I can't answer that question. I am not Cuban and have never lived in Cuba. I'm sure the reason why is very complex, and if I ever visit Cuba I will be sure to interact with the people and ask them.

[transplant99]

The embargo started long before the Cuban Missile Crisis of Oct./62 and if you want to look at what brought it on, look no further.

Yes.....LONG BEFORE...if February of '62 is "long".

The embargo previous to that was for weaponry.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why do you think there are so many exiles to begin with?

Something aint quite right when a family will jump into any floating device they can find and hope they dont die trying to reach the Florida coast.

I imagine it's kinda like in the middle ages when they sieged a castle. After a certain time people would rather run then starve.

[Cheese]

One problem....Fidels brother is in line to take over...and he is more hardline than Fidel. It wont open up at all.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

I can't answer that question. I am not Cuban and have never lived in Cuba. I'm sure the reason why is very complex, and if I ever visit Cuba I will be sure to interact with the people and ask them.

Well i have talked to them plenty the last few years...

The most common answer is that the economic climate is so depressed it is impossible to live decently....IE; poverty abounds.


Castro is despised by them...not the US.

But hey as Vulcan so eloquently stated...Canadians are more informed

Americans are much like us, just a little less informed

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by habernac

not "probably", definitely. I have a couple of Cuban pals in Miami that would probably swim for home if this news was true.

We have to wait and see.

For as many people that there are who hate Castro, there are as many or more who love him.

It will only be the best thing for Cuba if a peaceful transition takes place.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yes.....LONG BEFORE...if February of '62 is "long".

The embargo previous to that was for weaponry.

Well it was started by Eisenhower in March/60 and included sugar and oil and continued the arms embargo. It backed Cuba into a corner, their only out was the USSR. Maybe you should reread the article.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well i have talked to them plenty the last few years...

The most common answer is that the economic climate is so depressed it is impossible to live decently....IE; poverty abounds.


Castro is despised by them...not the US.

But hey as Vulcan so eloquently stated...Canadians are more informed

Do these people put any blame on the American government for their oppressing trade embargo that caused this poverty?

Don't think for a minute that the Cuban people were rich and prosperous before Castro took over. The Cuban people were taken advantage of and treated as second class citizens in their own country. The literacy rate was terribly low(around 50% if I remember correctly) when Castro took over, it is now around 99%.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well i have talked to them plenty the last few years...

The most common answer is that the economic climate is so depressed it is impossible to live decently....IE; poverty abounds.


Castro is despised by them...not the US.

But hey as Vulcan so eloquently stated...Canadians are more informed

It's probably no worse for the common Cuban then when Batista ran his corrupt regime.

Even dogs know, "You don't bite the hand that feeds you". What do you expect them to say to you.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well it was started by Eisenhower in March/60 and included sugar and oil and continued the arms embargo. It backed Cuba into a corner, their only out was the USSR. Maybe you should reread the article.

Cuba was backed into a corner? Laugh.

Hmmm..where could they get sugar...hmmmm maybe from ANY one of the neighboring Carribean countries????

Oil, now who had any of that they could import? Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico and peru all come to mind as close oil producing nations.

The CHOICE was the Soviet Union, it was hardly their "only out".

Maybe you should read things beyond propoganda?

[FireFly]

Even with the trade embargo on, the US has still managed to do a tonne of trade with Cuba, it just happens to only go one way.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It's probably no worse for the common Cuban then when Batista ran his corrupt regime.

Even dogs know, "You don't bite the hand that feeds you". What do you expect them to say to you.

What?

These folks aren't in Cuba any longer and haven't been for many years.

They made it safely to the US shores and are very happy to be here. Believe me, they have an incessant hatred for Castro and his iron-fisted ways....mainly because he was able to avoid it all had he just accepted a democratic system for the country. He chose not to....that is hardly the fault of the US or any other nation in the world.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Maybe HE should quit trying to rule the country with an iron fist, and you should quit being an apologist for communist dictators.

Of course the Cuban people have suffered under Castro, since when do we blame other countries free will trade wise, on the problems that exist in Cuba?

I'm no apologist for any dictatorship but the dictator before him, Batista, was on a par with Saddam. The USA supported him because it suited their economic and political agenda. If the USA had cut Castro some slack when he first came to power, we'd probably see a much friendlier, prosperous and freer Cuba today.

Kennedy was ready to negotiate with Castro "normal relations and drop the embargo" when he was assassinated.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Cuba was backed into a corner? Laugh.

Hmmm..where could they get sugar...hmmmm maybe from ANY one of the neighboring Carribean countries????

Oil, now who had any of that they could import? Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico and peru all come to mind as close oil producing nations.

The CHOICE was the Soviet Union, it was hardly their "only out".

Maybe you should read things beyond propoganda?

Honestly transplant you look pretty uninformed right now.

Cubans didn't need to import sugar, sugar export was their main industry. The United States was their major trading partner. During the Batista era, many American sugar and fruit companies had set up shop in Cuba and shipped their products back to the US.

Without the US to take these enormous amounts of sugar, Cuba had to find another large country to take the sugar. The USSR was this country. Fidel Castro was almost forced to trade with this country.

Please read some books and educate yourself. "The Real Fidel Castro" would probably be a good start for you. Honestly, it seems like you're the one who should read beyond propoganda.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Cuba was backed into a corner? Laugh.

Hmmm..where could they get sugar...hmmmm maybe from ANY one of the neighboring Carribean countries????

Oil, now who had any of that they could import? Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico and peru all come to mind as close oil producing nations.

The CHOICE was the Soviet Union, it was hardly their "only out".

Maybe you should read things beyond propoganda?

Like I said, maybe you should reread the history. These other countries were forced to obey the USAs embargo.

To show how misinformed you are. The Cubans wanted to sell sugar, not buy. Holy crap.

[transplant99]

Without the US to take these enormous amounts of sugar, Cuba had to find another large country to take the sugar. The USSR was this country. Fidel Castro was almost forced to trade with this country.

My bad...didnt read the article yet.

But the US doesn't have autonomy to deal with who they like....they HAD to buy sugar from Castro?

Like I said...if castro had gone to a democratic system, the embargo was gonzo..he refused.

What about your oil argument? Why did they need the USA for that? How was it the USA's responsibility to supply Oil to a country whom they didnt have/share similar beliefs with?

Like I said, maybe you should reread the history. These other countries were forced to obey the USAs embargo.

Forced how exactly? They were and are free to make any choices they like.

Again.....I have listened to Cubans that escaped. They hate the man, and if he dies, its a GOOD thing for their people according to them. They cant wait til he is gone. (Point of the thread)

Please read some books and educate yourself. "The Real Fidel Castro" would probably be a good start for you. Honestly, it seems like you're the one who should read beyond propoganda.

LOL...Ok...if you have a better take on the situation than those that lived it...rock on dude!!

[Vulcan]

"My bad...didn't read the article yet."

I'm not saying your Cuban friends should be dismissed, but you have to have more then one side of any story before you close the book.

I watched the story unfold on TV and the facts don't lie, especially when the article I linked to comes from a USA source. The only thing you have come up with is that some Cubans hate Castro.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Just out of curiosity, is the United States of America at fault for everything negative in the world? I'm really starting to wonder.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

My bad...didnt read the article yet.

But the US doesn't have autonomy to deal with who they like....they HAD to buy sugar from Castro?

Like I said...if castro had gone to a democratic system, the embargo was gonzo..he refused.

What about your oil argument? Why did they need the USA for that? How was it the USA's responsibility to supply Oil to a country whom they didnt have/share similar beliefs with?

This has nothing to do with an article, this is the basic knowledge of the Cuban embargo and the major reason why the Cuban economy has faltered. You are a pretty knowledgeable poster but I think you are in over your head on this particular matter. The matter is very deep and complex, and to fully understand it you need to do a lot of research.

The US had been buying sugar from Cuba since the 1800s. The economy relied so much on this product:

By 1860, Cuba was devoted to growing sugar. The country had to import all other necessary goods. They were dependent on the United States who bought 82 percent of the sugar.

-from The History of Cuba, wikipedia

Because the economy was so dependent on sugar, it also became extremely dependent on the United States.

This democratic argument is a fallacy. The United States had propped up authoritarian leaders throughout the world and supported them. If the propped up leaders allowed democratic elections, they were completely corrupt and only the elite ruling class could vote. Fidel Castro and his ideals were the main reason why the United States enacted the trade embargo. At the time, the United States was involved in imperialism throughout the world and specifically imperialism in Central and South America. Castro's main principles were founded on anti-imperialism and fighting the American imperialists in the Americas and in Africa. Castro actually disliked the Soviet union because of their imperialistic pursuits, but was forced to trade their sugar with them after the American embargo.

The U.S. imposed a complete diplomatic and commercial embargo on Cuba. At this time U.S. influence in Latin America was strong enough to make the embargo very effective and Cuba was forced to direct virtually all its trade to the Soviet Union and its allies.

-from wikipedia

As for the oil issue, with the trading with the USSR, Castro traded large amounts of sugar for Soviet oil.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I watched the story unfold on TV and the facts don't lie, especially when the article I linked to comes from a USA source. The only thing you have come up with is that some Cubans hate Castro.

Condescending BS aside.... I have read a ton of reasons to continue the embargo. This very subject was debated in 1999 heavily in Congress, when a Democratic Senator brought a bill to end the Cuban embargo. And though Zara actually believes that the demacracy angle is a fallacy, its in the records of the Congress.

In Cuba, where the judiciary is directly controlled by the communist party, the right to a fair trial is not guaranteed. Sometimes political proponents remain detained for prolonged periods, months, even years without any charge, much less a trial. And PAX Christi Netherlands continues in its Human Rights Report, February 1999, a list exists, drawn up by the Cuban Commission on Human Rights and Reconciliation, of approximately 300 political prisoners.

What is often overlooked, though, is that this is only a partial list. The Cuban Government does not disclose any data on the number of those imprisoned for political offenses such as rebellion, disrespect or enemy propaganda. Human rights organizations, therefore, will have to depend on other sources to report a political imprisonment to them. In actual fact, there are anywhere, and this is according to PAX Christi Netherlands, in actual fact, there are anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 political prisoners.

A good read.

http://www.nocastro.com/embargo/h2351.htm

Originally Posted by DFF

Just out of curiosity, is the United States of America at fault for everything negative in the world? I'm really starting to wonder.

Yup....me too.