Soldier not guilty in sex attack on Manitoba girl

[jolinar of malkshor]

Although the person may not have the mental capacity to comprehend his/her actions, the fact that they can and have carried out such an act is, in my opinion, grounds enough to detain this person for security reasons.

I am not saying we need to lock up all these people that are mentally unstable or what have you , but if they commit such an act, they need to be removed from society.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Defence of mental disorder

16. (1) No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.

Presumption

That flies directly in the face of this:

He said he once came across a Serbian soldier raping a young girl and shot the man in the head

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I am not saying we need to lock up all these people that are mentally unstable or what have you , but if they commit such an act, they need to be removed from society.

Precisely what I'm saying.

[jolinar of malkshor]

I am not arguing the fact that legislation, case law and common law are in place that prevents a person from being held criminally responsible for certain actions. They do need to be removed from society and the fact that they did it once and did not understand what they were doing, makes them even more of a risk then someone who knew what they were doing. IMO

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I am not arguing the fact that legislation, case law and common law are in place that prevents a person from being held criminally responsible for certain actions. They do need to be removed from society and the fact that they did it once and did not understand what they were doing, makes them even more of a risk then someone who knew what they were doing. IMO

What happens if a few years of counselling and a strict regiment of anti-depressant drugs could take care of this guy's PTSD? A few years from now, he could be a properly functioning member of society; would you still recommend his being institutionalized then?

I understand a lot of posters' frustrations here. An obviously dastardly act seems to go unpunished because the accuser had some mystical mental disorder/silver bullet and gets off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. The justice system really needs to guard against claims like that designed as a last-ditch defence effort. However, the our law still needs to have the flexibility to deal with cases of true mental disorders that truly do render a person's ability to appreciate the nature and consequence of their actions null. IMHO of course.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fredr123

What happens if a few years of counselling and a strict regiment of anti-depressant drugs could take care of this guy's PTSD? A few years from now, he could be a properly functioning member of society; would you still recommend his being institutionalized then?

I understand a lot of posters' frustrations here. An obviously dastardly act seems to go unpunished because the accuser had some mystical mental disorder/silver bullet and gets off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. The justice system really needs to guard against claims like that designed as a last-ditch defence effort. However, the our law still needs to have the flexibility to deal with cases of true mental disorders that truly do render a person's ability to appreciate the nature and consequence of their actions null. IMHO of course.

I agree, however, we have all seen schizophrenics that have been cured, but as soon as they go off their medication, they fall off the wagon and "POOF" complete nut jobs again. I really dont have an issue with these whack jobs that commit less serious crime, but when they start killing people, I think we should error on the side of caution.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Talk about a freaky foot fettish!

(Sorry, but the typo was just too funny to leave alone.)

lol, atleast he pronounced it right. Alot of people think it's pronounced 'pass'.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I agree, however, we have all seen schizophrenics that have been cured, but as soon as they go off their medication, they fall off the wagon and "POOF" complete nut jobs again. I really dont have an issue with these whack jobs that commit less serious crime, but when they start killing people, I think we should error on the side of caution.

I beleive you can be held criminally responsible if you go off your meds on your own doing (because now you are fully informed of your condition and know the risks) and turn into a psychotic killer.

Correct me if I am wrong on that one.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I beleive you can be held criminally responsible if you go off your meds on your own doing (because now you are fully informed of your condition and know the risks) and turn into a psychotic killer.

Correct me if I am wrong on that one.

I dont think that is the case. I am sure Freddy will let you know tomorrow.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Inferno

lol, atleast he pronounced it right. Alot of people think it's pronounced 'pass'.

Or Tea P!ss.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Or Tea P!ss.

lol, well maybe if you're from Europe.

[Nehkara]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredr123

Defence of mental disorder

16. (1) No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.

Presumption

That flies directly in the face of this:

Quote:
He said he once came across a Serbian soldier raping a young girl and shot the man in the head

No. It doesn't. The reason is that when he shot the Serbian soldier raping the girl, he wasn't ill. He didn't have PSTD. He knew raping young girls was wrong when he killed the Serbian soldier but when he raped the 13 year old girl it is not likely (if he was in fact suffering severe PSTD) that he knew what was happening.

PSTD is pretty serious and can really mess people up. It seems to be the brain's way of coping with unthinkable horrors. In fact, it seems that it may become a learned response because someone who has PSTD once has an increased risk of suffering it again.

One important aspect is that people with PSTD tend to relive the events that cause their trauma... and that may have been why this soldier comitted this particular act.

This all being said, I hope he gets the help he needs and I hope the girl will be okay. It is honestly a horrible situation for everyone involved.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Everytime I see something like this, I get sick. All of the god damn bleeding-heart Liberals are so worried about rehabilitation, that they foresake justice and public safety in the name of it. I hope this judge gets tried for negligence if this guy strikes again.

Well my comment to you is...I hope if you or any of your immediate family gets into trouble that a bleeding heart Liberal is your judge...as opposed to a staunch Conservative like you.

[ken0042]

Here's my thoughts on the matter. First thing to ponder; who is more of the victim; the guy with PTSD, or the little girl? In my mind the little girl. How long will this affect the girl- I would guess the rest of her life. I've only known a few rape victims, and none of them were ever quite the same after.

So why should the guy who committed the act have less of a sentence to serve than the girl who was the bigger victim?

I have some sympathy for the guy for what he had to endure as a soldier. However I have a greater amount of sympathy for the girl. And not to come across as cold or anything, but one of the reasons I never joined the military was I knew that if I ever had to serve in peace keeping there were risks like PTSD, and I wasn't willing to take those risks. This guy is a year younger than me, so obviously the info available to me was available to him. As a young man he chose a higher paying career than me; and knew it was higher paying because of risks.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Well my comment to you is...I hope if you or any of your immediate family gets into trouble that a bleeding heart Liberal is your judge...as opposed to a staunch Conservative like you.

LMAO...I'm the furthest thing from a staunch Conservative. Ask Azure.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Here's my thoughts on the matter. First thing to ponder; who is more of the victim; the guy with PTSD, or the little girl? In my mind the little girl. How long will this affect the girl- I would guess the rest of her life. I've only known a few rape victims, and none of them were ever quite the same after.

So why should the guy who committed the act have less of a sentence to serve than the girl who was the bigger victim?

People who are found not guilty by reason of mental illness lacked the necessary level of mens rea to commit the offence. It means that if the judge was satisfied bsed on the evidence the defence was under the onus to provide, then this guy's PTSD affected his mind to such a degree that he can't be held responsible (legally) for his actions. It's like the guy really didn't know what he was doing was wrong or that he was doing anything at all at the time. In my mind, these people are dangerous but are better served by getting treatment than by being locked up in jail and forgot about.

Second point is that determining who the bigger victim is can be misleading. Just because one suffered, in your eyes, a more brutal injury than the other doesn't make the latter less worthy of treatment or sympathy than the former. World hunger might be causing, in your eyes, greater problems around the world but as a cause it doesn't mean that the homeless problem in Calgary deserves no attention or support. It is possible, nay required, that we pay attention to all the victims rather than just pick and choose. IMHO, of course.