Yes folks...the conspiracy theorists have turned on each other!!!!

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Looger

facsism was the 'counter' to communism, and was exactly the same on the bottom. slavery.

communism was the 'counter' to old-school feudalism, and was exactly the same on the bottom. slavery.

is it such a stretch to imagine that there are those in the world that want to impose slavery on others? or re-impose?

keep calling it 'fascsism' or 'communism' or whatever - it is still totalitarianism, despotism.

the mechanisms change, maybe next it's gigantic corporations - which really isn't too different from mussolini's fascist italy.

to deny that there are people working towards a future like this for the western world, is a dangerous course of thinking.

there are those that try to blow the whistle on people in power that conspire to enslave us. listen to them, or don't. but to discredit ALL of them because some (most) are whackjobs?

there's ALWAYS a fringe element of people freaking out aboot nothing.

plenty of dissenters in 1930s europe, and a lot of people didn't listen to them. how did that turn out again?

So you're suggesting that Bush is the same as Hitler?

Are you that screwed up in the head?

[White Doors]

You think Bush is enslaving the Iraqi's?
you need a slap upside the head

[Looger]

Originally Posted by White Doors

So you're suggesting that Bush is the same as Hitler?

Are you that screwed up in the head?

no. what i'm saying is that there's...

ah, why bother.

you'l put words in my mouth, and argue in circles, and ask me what i just answered.

i'm done in this thread.

[White Doors]

You're done period.

well done.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

The terms "conspiracy theory" and "conspiracy theorist" have achieved negative status in the zeitgeist (much like the term "liberal"). This is really interesting, because the term really is not a negative one.

So have "conservative", "neo-con" (appears to mean anyone who disagrees with a "liberal" thinking person), "right wing", "left wing", etc.

What's new about that? People look in a negative light with those who disagree with them and don't share the same thought process. It always has been that way and always will be that way.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by White Doors

So you're suggesting that Bush is the same as Hitler?

Are you that screwed up in the head?

I don't think anybody has suggested "Bush is the same as Hitler", what I would suggest is that Bush is not entirely trustworthy as his interests [he has demonstrated his incompetence if not outright lying to gain his own ends] are not the same as most N. Americans.
I think most people should be vigilant of their leaders and not let any big brothers [left or right] disrupt our freedoms. I think your level of trust can lead to being manipulated.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by White Doors

So you're suggesting that Bush is the same as Hitler?

Are you that screwed up in the head?

Hitler light. The parallels between them and their methods are striking. Consider...

Hitler was installed, then re-elected.

Bush was installed, then re-elected.

Hitler had Reichstag allowing him to assume massive powers through the Enabling Act.

Bush had 911 which allowed him to ram home the Patriot Act, which has become a massive power grab.

Consider the memorandum written by Alberto Gonzales - then the president's attorney, now his nominee for attorney general. He wrote that the Geneva Convention was "obsolete" when it came to the war on terror. Gonzales reasoned that our adversaries were not parties to the convention and that the Geneva concept was ill suited to anti-terrorist warfare.

In 1941, General-Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel, the head of Hitler's Wehrmacht, mustered identical arguments against recognizing the Geneva rights of Soviet soldiers fighting on the Eastern Front. Keitel even called Geneva "obsolete," a remark noted by U.S. prosecutors at Nuremberg, who cited it as an aggravating circumstance in seeking, and obtaining, the death penalty. Keitel was executed in 1946.

Hitler said:

"The German people are not a warlike nation. It is a soldierly one, which means it does not want a war, but does not fear it. It loves peace but also loves its honor and freedom."

Bush said:

"We're pursuing a strategy of freedom around the world, because I understand free nations will reject terror. Free nations will answer the hopes and aspirations of their people. Free nations will help us achieve the peace we all want."

And lets jump to a quick list which we know both used to their advantage while in office!

The propaganda. The lies. The rhetoric. The nationalism. The flag waving. The pretext of 'preventive war'. The flaunting of international law and international standards of justice. The disappearances of 'undesirable' aliens. The threats against protesters. The invasion of a non-threatening sovereign nation. The occupation of a hostile country. The promises of prosperity and security. The spying on ordinary citizens. The incitement to spy on one's neighbors - and report them to the government. The arrogant triumphant pride in military conquest. The honoring of soldiers. The tributes to 'fallen warriors. The diversion of money to the military. The demonization of government appointed 'enemies'. The establishment of 'Homeland Security'. The dehumanization of 'foreigners'. The total lack of interest in the victims of government policy. The incarceration of the poor and mentally ill. The growing prosperity from military ventures. The illusion of 'goodness' and primacy. The new einsatzgrupen forces. Assassination teams. Closed extralegal internment camps. The militarization of domestic police. Media blackout of non-approved issues. Blacklisting of protesters - including the no-fly lists and photographing dissenters at rallies.

And finally, my favorite...

Hitler used Christianity to give his words absolute authority and decried any who dissented as unpatriotic. Bush uses Christianity to give his words absolute authority and decries any who dissent as unpatriotic.

Some rather interesting similarities, don't you think?

Bush may not yet be judged a mad man by those in North America, but his behavior sure has some in the international community wary of what the United States has up it's sleeve.

BTW White Doors, still waiting for that list of "lies" that I supposedly made in that post earlier. If you're going to make the glib comments that you do, you better be able to back up your bluster. You have a habit of calling people out, then letting others fight your battles. How about you start to defend a few more of your comments?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Hitler light. The parallels between them and their methods are striking. Consider...

Hitler was installed, then re-elected.

Bush was installed, then re-elected.

Hitler had Reichstag allowing him to assume massive powers through the Enabling Act.

Bush had 911 which allowed him to ram home the Patriot Act, which has become a massive power grab.

Consider the memorandum written by Alberto Gonzales - then the president's attorney, now his nominee for attorney general. He wrote that the Geneva Convention was "obsolete" when it came to the war on terror. Gonzales reasoned that our adversaries were not parties to the convention and that the Geneva concept was ill suited to anti-terrorist warfare.

In 1941, General-Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel, the head of Hitler's Wehrmacht, mustered identical arguments against recognizing the Geneva rights of Soviet soldiers fighting on the Eastern Front. Keitel even called Geneva "obsolete," a remark noted by U.S. prosecutors at Nuremberg, who cited it as an aggravating circumstance in seeking, and obtaining, the death penalty. Keitel was executed in 1946.

Hitler said:

"The German people are not a warlike nation. It is a soldierly one, which means it does not want a war, but does not fear it. It loves peace but also loves its honor and freedom."

Bush said:

"We're pursuing a strategy of freedom around the world, because I understand free nations will reject terror. Free nations will answer the hopes and aspirations of their people. Free nations will help us achieve the peace we all want."

And lets jump to a quick list which we know both used to their advantage while in office!

The propaganda. The lies. The rhetoric. The nationalism. The flag waving. The pretext of 'preventive war'. The flaunting of international law and international standards of justice. The disappearances of 'undesirable' aliens. The threats against protesters. The invasion of a non-threatening sovereign nation. The occupation of a hostile country. The promises of prosperity and security. The spying on ordinary citizens. The incitement to spy on one's neighbors - and report them to the government. The arrogant triumphant pride in military conquest. The honoring of soldiers. The tributes to 'fallen warriors. The diversion of money to the military. The demonization of government appointed 'enemies'. The establishment of 'Homeland Security'. The dehumanization of 'foreigners'. The total lack of interest in the victims of government policy. The incarceration of the poor and mentally ill. The growing prosperity from military ventures. The illusion of 'goodness' and primacy. The new einsatzgrupen forces. Assassination teams. Closed extralegal internment camps. The militarization of domestic police. Media blackout of non-approved issues. Blacklisting of protesters - including the no-fly lists and photographing dissenters at rallies.

And finally, my favorite...

Hitler used Christianity to give his words absolute authority and decried any who dissented as unpatriotic. Bush uses Christianity to give his words absolute authority and decries any who dissent as unpatriotic.

Some rather interesting similarities, don't you think?

Bush may not yet be judged a mad man by those in North America, but his behavior sure has some in the international community wary of what the United States has up it's sleeve.

BTW White Doors, still waiting for that list of "lies" that I supposedly made in that post earlier. If you're going to make the glib comments that you do, you better be able to back up your bluster. You have a habit of calling people out, then letting others fight your battles. How about you start to defend a few more of your comments?

As always Lanny. Your grasp of history is very tenuous.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by HOZ

As always Lanny. Your grasp of history is very tenuous.

Well then, back it up hotshot, or is this just another of your hit and runs.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by HOZ

As always Lanny. Your grasp of history is very tenuous.

And as always, you're always there to provide proof/support of your argument. Feel free to prove any of those statements inaccurate.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well then, back it up hotshot, or is this just another of your hit and runs.

I am shocked that I would have to. Even a quick perusal of Hitler's rise to power leaves Lanny's comparison looking truely idiotic.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well then, back it up hotshot, or is this just another of your hit and runs.

Actually I think Lanny is wrong too, but why should I back it up? On such an issue things revolve merely around what someone will think of Bush.

For example, some people will say that the enforced laws after 9/11, such as the Patriot Act is a good thing. Others would say it gives the government(Bush) too much control. How can you back that up?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I am shocked that I would have to. Even a quick perusal of Hitler's rise to power leaves Lanny's comparison looking truely idiotic.

So prove it wrong. You stated that history would prove you right, so prove yourself right. Bottom line is that you can't. Many of the same mechanisms that Hitler exploited Bush has done the same. Prove the parallels wrong. Go back and check the game tapes if you have to.



Some people (HOZ and White Doors are the worst offenders around, and ironically they are both Oiler fans, go figure) are free to make their hit and run attacks, without supporting anything they say. The only thing they can bring to the table is arm waiving. It's pathetic.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Azure

Actually I think Lanny is wrong too, but why should I back it up? On such an issue things revolve merely around what someone will think of Bush.

For example, some people will say that the enforced laws after 9/11, such as the Patriot Act is a good thing. Others would say it gives the government(Bush) too much control. How can you back that up?

Huh? Letting the governments detain and search people without probably cause is not giving them too much control. The Patriot Act is one of the most disgusting pieces of legislation in the history of any country. It spits on civil liberties.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Huh? Letting the governments detain and search people without probably cause is not giving them too much control. The Patriot Act is one of the most disgusting pieces of legislation in the history of any country. It spits on civil liberties.

Canada does all the time. In fact they can hold you for 48 hours, if memory serves me correctly, without council.

Brittain, in fact, you have no rights written anywhere.

France can deport you on a flip of a coin.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Canada does all the time. In fact they can hold you for 48 hours, if memory serves me correctly, without council.

Brittain, in fact, you have no rights written anywhere.

France can deport you on a flip of a coin.

So that makes it right? And it's 24 hours in Canada. The Patriot Act allows people to be detained without council for an indefinite period of time.

[HOZ]

Right/wrong....necessary? Terrorists are not theives.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Right/wrong....necessary? Terrorists are not theives.

Wrong and unneccessary. Would you have suspected murderers held indefinitely without council? We live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Canada does all the time. In fact they can hold you for 48 hours, if memory serves me correctly, without council.

Brittain, in fact, you have no rights written anywhere.

France can deport you on a flip of a coin.

The Patriot Act allows the government to label you what ever they wish, without evidence, and make you legally disappear under the guise of protecting the nation's security. The givernment can also sieze any property they feel has been used for terrorist or subversive activities. That means they can arrest you without cause, detain you indefinitely, and sieze and dispose of all your assets (house, car, bank accounts, etc.). If they decide to let you go, you have nothing when you return to the real world. Ad the kicker in all of this? You can't take action against the government for wrongful arrest and imprisonment. There isn't a court in the land that will challenge the power of the Patriot Act. The expanded powers of arrest, search and siezure, and information access make the the most obtrusive legislation ever passed in a democracy. The Act is not only unconstitutional, but also breaks multiple other laws established to guarantee the rights of citizens. This legislation sets up the potential for a new McCarthyism to take root within our country, and the guys running the show are just paranoid and delusional to do just that.

BTW... I'm still waiting for you to support your earlier statement. When are you going to belly up to the bar and put some proof behind your bluster?

[White Doors]

Yes, we hear Bush villifying a race because he thinks Caucasians are a superior breed. Yep, I've heard that one.

Bush is also carrying out genocide. Bush also has a secret police. Bush terrorizes his own country to keep him in power... Bush has also suspended elections. Bush has murdedered his political opponets. Bush has written a book outlining his strategy of racial purification and conquest. Bush hates the world and will try to destroy it.


ANYONE who compares Bush with Hitler has a serious shortcomings on their historical knowledge. Either that, or they are so far left that it is clouding them to the truth. To even speak of Bush and Hitler in the same breath shows how truly far gone you are. It also is a huge insult to Hitler's victims and to the generation hat sacrificed themselves to remove him from power.